# Clear coat laying out very rough



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

Ok i sprayed color on my car last night, Dark cherry red mettalic. Looked very nice and even but not a lot of shine. This morning i started to spray some clear coat over it and the clear sprays out very nice and wet looking but then after about 10 mins it turns very rough looking and the shine goes away. I let sit for about 15 mins and then applied a second coat on the passenger side to see if it improves. it did but only a little still looks rough but has more shine than the drivers side for sure. Should i keep going, then wet sand and buff? or is somthing wrong?


thanks for any help


----------



## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

what brand are you using. Kind of sounds like your using intercoat :dunno: But thats just an uneducated guess :happysad:


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by KAKALAK_@May 9 2011, 10:23 AM~20513820
> *what brand are you using. Kind of sounds like your using intercoat :dunno: But thats just an uneducated guess :happysad:
> *



cant remember brand. i know its off brand.


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

what is the temp you are spraying in?? do not keep going......


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 9 2011, 05:12 PM~20516251
> *what is the temp you are spraying in??  do not keep going......
> *



spraying at about 72-78 degrees


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

hmmmm pics would help here the temp is not an issue if it is that warm 


are you laying it wet enough? is this just your first coat?? what brand clear coat are you using? are you using a good gun?


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

Cheaper gun. 80 dollar husky. Starfire clear. I looked very close today and it has a bunch of X shaped cracks all over it. Very fine and hard to see. I'm selling the car anyway. I'm 1300 in it it's a 99 oldsmobile intrigue. I should still be able to sell for profit. But it's funny in the inside of the trunk lid I used duplicolor perfect match spray paint and I cleared that and that stuff looks like glass. Perfect. Everything else is junk. I'm getter urethane next time instead of enamel. I guess this is how u learn.


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

hmmm that is crows feet or checking or crazing anyways i think you put the clear on heavy, then put another coat on shortly after trapping the solvents in

with clear you have to walk the fine line too much and it will orange peel and you will get runs too little and you will have dry spray you have to find the happy medium

spraying it wet but not too wet that it causes runs.....

I reread what you wrote and I noticed you said your basecoat was even but *not alot of shine*
that is good when you spray basecoat you don't want it to shine the clearcoat is what brings it out....


I have never used that clearcoat before but I am a bit familiar with the brand, I thought that was a urethane?? if it is you should be ok spraying it over an acrylic enamel I have done this before....

what size tip is in the gun?


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 10 2011, 12:04 AM~20519896
> *hmmm that is crows feet or checking or crazing    anyways i think you put the clear on heavy, then put another coat on shortly after trapping the solvents in
> 
> with clear you have to walk the fine line too much and it will orange peel and you will get runs too little and you will have dry spray you have to find the happy medium
> ...




1.4 tip. its nuts cuz i spray pained the inside of the trunk lid with dupli color perfect match paint and then used my clear over that, and that looks perfect. i used acrylic lacqure primer and did not sand before color


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

and here is the roughness:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

hmmm just looks like orange peel to me.....what pressure were you spraying at? what size compressor? and how long is your air hose? how many inches to the car when spraying?


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 10 2011, 12:41 PM~20522735
> *hmmm just looks like orange peel to me.....what pressure were you spraying at?  what size compressor?  and how long is your air hose? how many inches to the car when spraying?
> *



running about 15 psi. 60 gallon 5hp compressor. 50 foot hose. regulator on gun reading air pressure and i was about 10 inches away from car.


just kinda weird that the inside of the trunk looked sooooo good. i wonder if my primer was fucking with me. cuz the primer laid out very rough looking and feeling and then my dumbass didnt sand it before i sprayed on color. color layed down somewhat rough but not terrible and then the clear just topped it all off lol. on the inside of the trunk i did not primer i just scuffed and sprayed the duplicolor and then cleared it


----------



## Hoss805 (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by jumper_@May 10 2011, 10:49 AM~20522783
> *running about 15 psi. 60 gallon 5hp compressor. 50 foot hose. regulator on gun reading air pressure and i was about 10 inches away from car.
> just kinda weird that the inside of the trunk looked sooooo good. i wonder if my primer was fucking with me. cuz the primer laid out very rough looking and feeling and then my dumbass didnt sand it before i sprayed on color. color layed down somewhat rough but not terrible and then the clear just topped it all off lol. on the inside of the trunk i did not primer i just scuffed and sprayed the duplicolor and then cleared it
> *


15 psi is not enough,more air pressure will give you a finer atomization.


----------



## pinche chico (Jan 29, 2007)

LOOKS LIKE THE OLD PAINT IS SUCKING IN HTE NEW STUFF,,,


----------



## pinche chico (Jan 29, 2007)

OR TOO HOT TO CLEAR


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jumper_@May 10 2011, 07:49 PM~20522783
> *running about 15 psi. 60 gallon 5hp compressor. 50 foot hose. regulator on gun reading air pressure and i was about 10 inches away from car.
> just kinda weird that the inside of the trunk looked sooooo good. i wonder if my primer was fucking with me. cuz the primer laid out very rough looking and feeling and then my dumbass didnt sand it before i sprayed on color. color layed down somewhat rough but not terrible and then the clear just topped it all off lol. on the inside of the trunk i did not primer i just scuffed and sprayed the duplicolor and then cleared it
> *




not enough run at least 50-55 psi that is why you are getting orange peel
you have to spray at 50 because there is a drop in air pressure with the long run of the hose....

you want to spray 4-6 inches away from the car at all times 12 inches is too far away and will cause orange peel and dry spray.....

I don't think it's the product anymore but your technique


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)




----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by pinche chico_@May 10 2011, 08:12 PM~20522918
> *LOOKS LIKE THE OLD PAINT IS SUCKING IN HTE NEW STUFF,,,
> *


that's possible, but he needs to correct his technique first and spray at the right pressure 

after he does that he will know what is going on...


----------



## Bigjxloc (Jan 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 10 2011, 12:13 PM~20522932
> *not enough run at least 50-55 psi  that is why you are getting orange peel
> you have to spray at 50 because there is a drop in air pressure with the long run of the hose....
> 
> ...


Hit the Nail right on the head. How fast you move your arm is also as important.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 10 2011, 01:13 PM~20522932
> *not enough run at least 50-55 psi  that is why you are getting orange peel
> you have to spray at 50 because there is a drop in air pressure with the long run of the hose....
> 
> ...



ok even if i have a pressure guage on my gun still shoot that bitch up to 50 psi? it says no more than 25 or somthing like that on the gun. 

and i understand my technique is off but why would the inside of the trunk look like glass. i used the same air pressure and technique on that, just different paint.


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Bigjxloc_@May 10 2011, 08:50 PM~20523223
> *Hit the Nail right on the head. How fast you move your arm is also as important.
> *




yes if he is 4 inches away he will want to move faster to avoid runs if he is 6 inches away he can move slower....
I believe if he changes his technique he will get it....

this is why I laugh at people when I hear them say, anybody can paint........ :biggrin:


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

ok even if i have a pressure guage on my gun still shoot that bitch up to 50 psi? it says no more than 25 or somthing like that on the gun. 

and i understand my technique is off but why would the inside of the trunk look like glass. i used the same air pressure and technique on that, just different paint.


----------



## danny chawps (Oct 14, 2008)

> _Originally posted by jumper_@May 10 2011, 11:26 AM~20522648
> *
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> ...



could be your air preassure or maybe when you layed out the base you didnt hit it with a tak rag so the surface was rough


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by jumper_@May 10 2011, 09:23 PM~20523437
> *ok even if i have a pressure guage on my gun still shoot that bitch up to 50 psi? it says no more than 25 or somthing like that on the gun.
> 
> and i understand my technique is off but why would the inside of the trunk look like glass. i used the same air pressure and technique on that, just different paint.
> *



don't worry about what it says on the gun 25 psi is a standard they put on to keep the voc's out of the air from screwing up the environment you WILL get better atomization by bumping up the pressure.....

now to be sure what pressure you need you would have to tell us if the gun is an old school conventional or an HVLP 

there are MANY variables when it comes to painting it is a process of elimination when something go's wrong......even us, the people who have been painting for a long time come across problems

it's the experience you gain that will help you figure out what is exactly wrong when it happens....

you need to start with the air pressure on that gun, forget about why the trunk came out so good....it doesn't matter if you used primer or not your air pressure you are shooting at is extremely low.....

for instance an HVLP gun will usually require 10 psi at the nozzle, key word here AT THE NOZZLE NOT THE INLET 

there is no way to gauge if you are getting 10 psi at the nozzle or tip unless you have a gauge to read it......

If your gun is a conventional and not an HVLP you need to spray at higher pressures for the atomization to take place

if your gun is an HVLP you can shoot anywhere from 25-35 DEPENDING ON THE GUN....

I could go into more detail about this but I will let you process this info for now

AGAIN this is why I say not everyone can paint, when something go's wrong, (and it's usually a weekend) and you have nobody to turn to to ask questions you are essentually screwed and you lose money by the minute.....I say minute because by the time you find out you need more materials, the stores are closed and you have to wait until the next day and then you have to sand the car back down again and buy more materials to fix the mistake turning a $1000 job into a $1200-1500 job


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

ya man i hear u. painting is deffinetly not as easy as people think. i took about 2 years of autobody corses 4 years ago. but they really didnt emphasize a whole lot on the actual painting, which i was very disappointed in. mainly just how to do the body work properly and get real fast at it. 


and as far as the gun goes it is a gravity fed hvlp gun. i got some materials left, just ran outta reducer but i can go pick some up, im gunna get an old fender and go through the whole process again this time with more air pressure and not using that bullshit primer.



i appreciate all the help guys. ive been coming on this website since i was 13, bugging the fuck outta everyone on here asking a million questions lol. thanks again


----------



## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

I shoot clear at 15 psi with no issues. Im shocked some of you guys shoot as high as 55 psi. That's insane. 
I say that's lacquer primer shrinking. Especially since you didn't even sand the primer.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 11 2011, 11:34 AM~20529713
> *I shoot clear at 15 psi with no issues. Im shocked some of you guys shoot as high as 55 psi. That's insane.
> I say that's lacquer primer shrinking. Especially since you didn't even sand the primer.
> *




lol ya im getting a lot of different info. im just gunna get some old hoods and fenders gathered and do some test and tuning on my own. and thats what it looks like to me is that the shit underneath is wrinkling up, im buffing it right now and i can cut that clear down pretty far and it hasnt burned through anywhere yet, and all i have left is a little orange peel. 

i work a dealership that is also a body shop, so i go back there and talk to those guys but there always so busy i dont want to hold them up since we are all on the clock, but they say ya shoot about 15-20 psi and stay 8 to 10 inches from the panel.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

here is just a small section i just wet sanded and hand buffed to see if i could get it back to life. looks decent.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 11 2011, 06:34 PM~20529713
> *I shoot clear at 15 psi with no issues. Im shocked some of you guys shoot as high as 55 psi. That's insane.
> I say that's lacquer primer shrinking. Especially since you didn't even sand the primer.
> *



Ha ha you definitely misunderstood me, you CAN shoot low pressures with HVLP but with old school CONVENTIONAL there is no way in hell 15 psi would cut it. 

If you want to get technical I spray with a binks m1-g I can spray as low as 15 psi. Do I do it, hell no, why? Because I can get a lot better atomization at 20-25 psi. I don't care to cut and buff as much so I like to lay it down as flat as I can right away.


----------



## Hoss805 (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 11 2011, 09:34 AM~20529713
> *I shoot clear at 15 psi with no issues. Im shocked some of you guys shoot as high as 55 psi. That's insane.
> I say that's lacquer primer shrinking. Especially since you didn't even sand the primer.
> *


what kind of gun?? i have Satas and they are air hogs


----------



## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

I got a 1.3 SATA rp jet. 
Shoot from far, and really slow. 
Lays out like glass. Not even a HVLP

When I shoot with the devilbiss I shoot at around 20 - 25 psi. 

Here is a car I shot at 15 psi with Matrix autoglas clear. 










Clear laid out slick.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 12 2011, 08:03 AM~20536420
> *I got a 1.3 SATA rp jet.
> Shoot from far, and really slow.
> Lays out like glass. Not even a HVLP
> ...


 :wow: :wow: thats what im talkin about lol. when you say from far, how far are we talking?


----------



## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

I'd say 12 to 15" maybe a little more. 
It all depends on how the clear is laying out. 
Which all depends on conditions in the booth, and what clear I'm shooting. 
I'm in Miami so the weather is always warm. 
I always shoot with slow hardener and reducer. 
I probably waste more clear than others who shoot rapidly at 40 psi with te gun 4" away, but I know I won't get a run, and I get that depth in the clear. 

I haven't been posting much on here the past couple years. I've been busy on contracts painting 40' boats. Then I worked at a body shop that was just me and a friend "sneekone" where we were putting out 5 to 10 cars a week just us two alone. 

When working in those types of shops, one must leave cutting and buffing to a minimum.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 12 2011, 10:37 AM~20537206
> *I'd say 12 to 15" maybe a little more.
> It all depends on how the clear is laying out.
> Which all depends on conditions in the booth, and what clear I'm shooting.
> ...



thats bad ass. ya cuz with this crazy rough bullshit im trying to cut and buff it took me 2 hours to do the fucking hood lol!


----------



## ProjectMatt (Oct 20, 2010)

> _Originally posted by jumper_@May 10 2011, 11:26 AM~20522648
> *
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> ...


car looks sick! lets ghost ride that shit! hahaha jk


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 12 2011, 05:37 PM~20537206
> *I'd say 12 to 15" maybe a little more.
> It all depends on how the clear is laying out.
> Which all depends on conditions in the booth, and what clear I'm shooting.
> ...



he is not in a booth just saying......but if he wants to shoot clear a foot away form the car who are we to stop him I guess???

a far as runs I don't get them either and I don't spray at 40 psi, I will say it again if it is an old CONVENTIONAL gun not HVLP you HAVE to shoot at high pressure 

it does surprise me that you are shooting at 15 psi with that sata I have mostly seen people shoot between 20-25 or even 30 with these???


----------



## 87cutty530 (May 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SWITCHCRAFT_@May 10 2011, 12:13 PM~20522932
> *not enough run at least 50-55 psi  that is why you are getting orange peel
> you have to spray at 50 because there is a drop in air pressure with the long run of the hose....
> 
> ...


This pretty much summed everything up.. :thumbsup:

i saw 15 psi and 50 foot hose and i was like, thats your major problems... good shit..


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

sprayed in a garage sprayed 4-6 inches away air pressure 25 psi no cut and buff...


sprayed this in 07' I have a full pic of the bike assembled somewhere on the net but I have to find it somehow I had pics on various sites that either closed down or deleted them, like tinypic


----------



## 87cutty530 (May 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 11 2011, 10:34 AM~20529713
> *I shoot clear at 15 psi with no issues. Im shocked some of you guys shoot as high as 55 psi. That's insane.
> I say that's lacquer primer shrinking. Especially since you didn't even sand the primer.
> *


If you have a regulator, than thats understandable.. but with time i was told it will look fine but then it peels.... idk never done it...:dunno:

I spray at least at 20 with a regulator, but 45 psi without..


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 12 2011, 05:37 PM~20537206
> *I'd say 12 to 15" maybe a little more.
> It all depends on how the clear is laying out.
> Which all depends on conditions in the booth, and what clear I'm shooting.
> ...



don't take this the wrong way but I am curious about this statement:

what I don't understand is why you are 12-15" or more from the panel?? if you are afraid of runs you won't get them if you're 4-6 inches form the panel....I would be afraid of dry spray not to mention the big clouds of clear in the air if you are spraying in a garage in a booth maybe but in a garage I couldn't imagine it.....


----------



## JustCruisin (Jan 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 12 2011, 08:03 AM~20536420
> *I got a 1.3 SATA rp jet.
> Shoot from far, and really slow.
> Lays out like glass. Not even a HVLP
> ...


Nice!  

Inches away this, psi that.. you guys are confusing me! :happysad: lol I usually just go by sound of the spray, or whatever paint/materials I'm sprayin and adjust my spray technique accordingly..

Autobody Master clear a buddy gave me.. Out of the gun,NO buff! I don't use cheap clear usually, it was a buy & flip deal for a customer.. I use a SATA 2000..


----------



## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

I'm not afraid of runs. I just don't shoot 4" away from the panel.
That can cause solvent pop, clear hazing up. Just ain't right. 
If I'm clearing something that's gonna get re cleared (wet sanded for patterns or kandy) I'll shoot at about 10" and 20-25 psi. 
But for final clear, I shoot low pressure slow and far.
I always use a regulator at the gun.


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

Did some buffing, just after compound no polish. 



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## streetking (Feb 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JustCruisin_@May 13 2011, 02:27 AM~20543862
> *Nice!
> 
> Inches away this, psi that.. you guys are confusing me!  :happysad: lol I usually just go by sound of the spray, or whatever paint/materials I'm sprayin and adjust my spray technique accordingly..
> ...


rounded panels usually lay flat , try geting it to lay that flat on the side of a car


----------



## JustCruisin (Jan 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by streetking_@May 13 2011, 10:47 AM~20545350
> *rounded panels usually lay flat , try geting it to lay that flat on the side of a car
> *


I try! :naughty: I know small parts are easy to lay flat instead of big ass panels, good thing to.. cuz the dudes I paint motorcycles for are some cheap-asses..


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by tRiCk oR tReAt 2_@May 13 2011, 03:44 PM~20544658
> *I'm not afraid of runs. I just don't shoot 4" away from the panel.
> That can cause solvent pop, clear hazing up.  Just ain't right.
> If I'm clearing something that's gonna get re cleared (wet sanded for patterns or kandy) I'll shoot at about 10" and 20-25 psi.
> ...




if you are moving as slow as a snail maybe but not if you maintain a constant speed.....I spray around 6 inches, I have sprayed cheap clears and expensive clears and I have never had a problem

either way I guess what it boils down to is, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.....

you could technically pick apart something about everyone's spraying habits there is no right or wrong way to do it just general guidelines to achieve the best possible end results.....


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by streetking_@May 13 2011, 05:47 PM~20545350
> *rounded panels usually lay flat , try geting it to lay that flat on the side of a car
> *



x2

here are some old pics of a car I sprayed a while back also in a booth though......no cut and buff needed

oh and I used "cheap clear" omni which costs over $120 a gallon if you want to call that cheap....


----------



## jumper (Jan 21, 2002)

another question i have is what it a good patern to apply the paint. like where shoudl i start and end? i started on the roof then travled down the piller into the quarter then the doors, fender, hood, front bumper, then on to the otherside and ended on rear bumper.


----------



## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

that is how i do it also...i always spray the trunk last (because it's closest to the exhaust) 

in a garage cross draft type setup.....

in a downdraft this doesn't matter


----------



## 87cutty530 (May 6, 2006)

I always start, roof, hood, then trunk.. then work my way from either side of fender all through around.. then follow the same pattern 2 more times..


----------



## streetking (Feb 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JustCruisin_@May 13 2011, 11:56 AM~20545769
> *I try!  :naughty:  I know small parts are easy to lay flat instead of big ass panels, good thing to.. cuz the dudes I paint motorcycles for are some cheap-asses..
> *


i find motorcycle owners here where im from arent cheap asses and have no problem droppin 3,000 on a kandy job for 2 fenders and 1 or 2 tanks, its the car owners here that are cheap!


----------

