# PAINTING OVER LACQUER !?!?



## SELF MADE (Jun 20, 2004)

as it sais. got a 79 gbody that is clean, clean. requires minimal body work, og lacquer on there. can i seal it off some how safe or is it better to strip the bitch ??

please help.

j.


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## lowrider 4 life (Nov 11, 2005)

i think it would be best just strip it but thats just my 2 cents


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## SELF MADE (Jun 20, 2004)

true, but before going balls out stripping my another car this year, i wanna know if someone has a formula to paint over mint old lacquer ??

j.


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## Mi Estilo CC (Dec 8, 2004)

I've never had any luck painting over lacquer....So I've always sanded them down to primer and worked up from there......

However.......epoxy sealer may just do the trick

I know for sure that urethane 2K, polyester and acrylic primer will soak in and wrinkle the lacquer. (shrinks)

What you can do.........right befor you plan to sand or strip it down.....scuff an erea, and lay down 2 wet coats of epoxy sealer and see what happens.


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## hotstuff5964 (Dec 9, 2004)

just wondering, how long do these problems associated with painting over laquer take to develop? days, weeks, months, immedietly......


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## -NO NAME- (Jul 18, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SELF MADE_@Mar 12 2006, 05:00 PM~5034462
> *as it sais. got a 79 gbody that is clean, clean. requires minimal body work,  og lacquer on there. can i seal it off some how safe or is it better to strip the bitch ??
> 
> please help.
> ...


I had a bad experience painting over laquer on a '69 Impala. It came out bangin, but then in no more than a year the Acrylic Urathane I shot over the laquer started to lift and bubble. This was about 10 years ago and I still see the car cause it's my buddy's ride, and it's gotten worse. The trunk area is about the only part that seemed to have been affected. I remember I only spider webbed the sealer, so maybe if you shoot the sealer on solid, you might have better luck. He wanted me to hurry up so that's why I didn't strip it down to bare metal. I'll never do that again, better safe than sorry in my book.


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## SELF MADE (Jun 20, 2004)

seems like we have all had the same luck w this. hey estillo, do you think itd be fine to sand down to the og primer and epox then 2k that ?? well guys, i'l let you know haoe the decision process goes today, lol.


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## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

NO the og primer is lacquer......strip that shit


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## 79Cadillac (Sep 25, 2005)

Shit, im guessing the paint on my caddy is lacquer? its a 79 DeVille.
I was hoping i wouldnt have to strip it down as well


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## hotstuff5964 (Dec 9, 2004)

whats the difference between painting over laquer paint, and laquer primer, which i frequently use.


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## Mi Estilo CC (Dec 8, 2004)

I've only had to deel with this problem a couple of times, and mostly on the topcoat.........I'm not sure on the primer, but I wouldn't chance it eather.

It's up to you.....I do know of some tricks that may prevent the initiual shrinkedge but there is no telling what the long term effects may be...

Last car I did with this problem was my little bro's 65.....After some body work, the whole car was block sanded flat.....I notest that it had a couple layers of paint allready and we should have stripped it down, but the car was not a big prieoraty and he just wanted it looking descent.

I contenued with an acrylic sealer keeping an eye on the ereas were the OG lauquer had been exposed.......sure enough I started to see some wrinkling on those spots only 10 min. after spraying.....I stoped right there and waited for the sealer to dry......block sanded the wrinkles smooth......then mixed up some normal urethane 2k primer, pored it in my touch up gun, and misted on about 4 coats over the erea that had wrinkled.....letting each pass dry befor the next. Then hand sanded it smooth with 400 wet....then moved on to base, pearl, and clear........the next day I looked it over in the sun, and the spots I repaired were fine, but found some other smaller spots that had some wrinkles....I don't know if I had just missed them or they showed up over night. (I'll get pics of them tomorow)

That little trick with the touch up gun, what it does is, by laying down light misted coats one at a time, it doesn't give the solvents in the primer time to soak in, penatrate and interact with the laquer coat underneath.....the followeing coats will then protect the laquer coat from the base and clear........no shrinking.

It's not just laquers that you have to worry about.......spraying over any odl uncatylised paint can give you this problem


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## Mi Estilo CC (Dec 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by hot$tuff5964_@Mar 13 2006, 03:01 PM~5040689
> *whats the difference between painting over laquer paint, and laquer primer, which i frequently use.
> *



You should be able to paint over fresh (not years old) primer with no problem....

but when you have laquer that is many years old, it starts to breakdown in the microscoptic level........then you scuff it and wet it with new solvents (primer or paint) and those solvents soak into the laquer through the scraches left from scuffing or sanding....the unstable laquer then starts to swell or shrink, cousing wrinkles, lifting, or bubbling.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2006)

it sucks to have to strip a car down, even when its only got 19k original miles on it, but if you gonna spend all that money on fresh paint, you might as well strip laquer all the way down, and dont look back.



think about it this way, couple hundred to have it striped, anywhere between $1500-$15,000 to get it painted (or more). why not do it right.


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## hotstuff5964 (Dec 9, 2004)

how was that stripped, looks like grinder marks. just curious


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## Mi Estilo CC (Dec 8, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BROWN_@Mar 12 2006, 11:37 PM~5037352
> *I had a bad experience painting over laquer on a '69 Impala. It came out bangin, but then in no more than a year the Acrylic Urathane I shot over the laquer started to lift and bubble. This was about 10 years ago and I still see the car cause it's my buddy's ride, and it's gotten worse. The trunk area is about the only part that seemed to have been affected. I remember I only spider webbed the sealer, so maybe if you shoot the sealer on solid, you might have better luck. He wanted me to hurry up so that's why I didn't strip it down to bare metal. I'll never do that again, better safe than sorry in my book.
> *



"better safe than sorry" is the perfect answere for any question were you know there is a chance for something to go wrong.

So ya.....get some beer and a couple homies and start sanding


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## pink63impala (Aug 5, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TATTOO-76_@Mar 14 2006, 12:55 AM~5043601
> *it sucks to have to strip a car down, even when its only got 19k original miles on it, but if you gonna spend all that money on fresh paint, you might as well strip laquer all the way down, and dont look back.
> think about it this way, couple hundred to have it striped, anywhere between $1500-$15,000 to get it painted (or more). why not do it right.
> *


 :0 :0


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## DON OMAR (Feb 20, 2006)

WHAT IF YOU WHERE TO SHOOT SOME WATER BASED PAINT
I WAS THINKING OF SHOOTING PATTERNS OVER SOME LACQUER?


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## SELF MADE (Jun 20, 2004)

i'm on the phone w ppg tomorrow to ask some more abo the DP epoxy and its performance over lacquer and non cross linked substrates. i'll let you guys know.

j.


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## SELF MADE (Jun 20, 2004)

turn out that the p sheet for DP epoxy tells no lies !! hahahha

seems as though , lacquer, if sealed w DP epoxy followed by an additional topcoat, either base/clear, or in my case K38. within the same day, will not lift.

keep in mind that my paint rep relayed that message to me from PPG, so i hope nothhing was lost in translation. the fuckers wouldn't answer my call all week.

so here goes !!!

j.


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## Mi Estilo CC (Dec 8, 2004)

Thats what I was thinking, but thanx for letting us know :thumbsup:

I'll be testing it out on that 63 I'm working on......it's only going to be block sanded, and I know there will be some og laquer showing through so we'll see how well the epoxy seals it off


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## SWITCHCRAFT (Jan 13, 2002)

> _Originally posted by SELF MADE_@Mar 19 2006, 07:47 PM~5080037
> *turn out that the p sheet for DP epoxy tells no lies !! hahahha
> 
> seems as though , lacquer, if sealed w DP epoxy followed by an additional topcoat, either base/clear, or in my case K38. within the same day, will not lift.
> ...



is this og lacquer or freshly sprayed lacquer if it's freshly sprayed......thanks for teaching me something new


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hot$tuff5964_@Mar 14 2006, 01:03 AM~5043674
> *how was that stripped, looks like grinder marks. just curious
> *



it was done the right way, no grinder.




1000-3000 rpm 7/9" variable speed sander with an 8" sanding pad, and 80 grit sand paper.


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## hotstuff5964 (Dec 9, 2004)

> _Originally posted by TATTOO-76_@Mar 20 2006, 01:37 PM~5086469
> *it was done the right way, no grinder.
> 1000-3000 rpm  7/9" variable speed sander with an 8" sanding pad, and 80 grit sand paper.
> *


nice, i just got one of them dewalt polisher/grinders myself :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hot$tuff5964_@Mar 20 2006, 05:09 PM~5087429
> *nice, i just got one of them dewalt polisher/grinders myself :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
> *



I love mine, I just got it too. I like the fact that its only 1000-3000 rpm, cant really fuck up much going that slow, lol.


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## 86camaroman (Dec 9, 2005)

you can base clear over lacquer primer with no problems i have done it a million times and never had anything lift the only problem with lacquer is it shrinks where as urethanes but its really cheap and for something less then show it does a good job dries fast sands easy


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## hotstuff5964 (Dec 9, 2004)

yeah yeah i know, i base over laquer primer all the time. my question, whats the difference between painting over laquer paint and laquer primer?


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## 86camaroman (Dec 9, 2005)

i dont know the answer to that question i have never painted any old lacquer vehicles to tell you what happens or anything


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