# Double Pump Theory



## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I've never really thought about running 2 pumps to the front, now that I think about it, I don't know why I never really considered the idea. Im sure at one point I got the impression that double pumps weren't challenging enough when it came to hopping,or were overkill for anything other than a triple digit bumper smasher. A lot of the big league hoppers are running single,and a lot of the time its hard to spot the difference between a single and a double,but man I sure love those cars that catch a couple feet on the first lick!


From what people say, running a double pump off the same battery bank you would a typical single, you dont see much of a performance difference. I think thats the thing that mostly deterred me from considering double, too many batteries for a car thats anything but a strictly competition or exhibition built hopper. 

Running double pump off a single bank, do the motors just suck too much current to run at full potential? Each motor would pull a little less than a single pump I'd imagine due to sharing the lifting load,but is 2 motors still considered too much for a single bank, at any voltage? If the typical battery used is indeed the limiting factor here, a deep cycle AGM with the lowest internal resistance,highest maximum discharge current,etc, would definitely be a big help (As they would be in any setup IMO,but thats a whoole different discussion!), or how about sacrificing 12v of a single bank to add amperage providing power to the end of the line? Are 12 batt double pump setups usually running 72 volts,or higher?

Lifting only 1 side of the car, I would assume you could run relatively large (at least #7 marz') gears without needing huge amounts of torque,so I'm curious how 2 field high rpm motors would work for doubles. Are big bore cylinders ever used on double pumps?

I've always seen double pump cars with the lines tied into each other. Is that just to keep any slight variation in the pumps from causing problems at the cylinder, ease of plumbing for a single dump valve,or do a lot of guys run 2 differently spec'd pumps?

I'd love to spend all summer playing with a double, but I couldn't bring myself to run more than 8-10 batts. Accumulated reservoirs, and some 6v-rated motors seem like the ticket,running batts in series,pumps in parallel.  How many people would be inclined to go double if you could run the same battery bank as your single? :dunno: 

Who knows, theres plenty I want to try with a single pump still. Just wondering if it's beating a dead horse trying to squeeze more out of a pump thats already being pushed beyond the limit..

Ultimately I think I'll add another pump bracket to my rack. Experimenting is fun, but not so much when you gotta pull a whole rack out to add a piece you were on the fence about in the first place. Can always use it as a fire extinguisher mount or something if I stick with single :biggrin:


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

FOR A GUY THAT KNOWS A LOT............................U SURE DONT KNOW MUCH ! :biggrin: 































HAVE U EVER TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MOST DBL PUMPS, DO RUN DBL THE BATTS, AND THE INCHES THEY GAIN CAN POSSIBLY BE DUE TO THE WEIGHT OF ADDING 6 OR MORE BATTS JUST TO RUN THE SECOND PUMP ?


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Jan 26 2011, 10:18 AM~19702454
> *FOR A GUY THAT KNOWS A LOT............................U SURE DONT KNOW MUCH !  :biggrin:
> HAVE U EVER TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MOST DBL PUMPS, DO RUN DBL THE BATTS, AND THE INCHES THEY GAIN CAN POSSIBLY BE DUE TO THE WEIGHT OF ADDING 6 OR MORE BATTS JUST TO RUN THE SECOND PUMP ?
> *


 :0 :biggrin:


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## THE REAL BIG M (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA+Jan 26 2011, 10:18 AM~19702454-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :cheesy:


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by THE REAL BIG M_@Jan 26 2011, 02:49 PM~19704545
> *:0
> 
> :cheesy:
> *



:wave: *BIG M*


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA+Jan 26 2011, 11:18 AM~19702454-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All you guys are chippers????

My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....

A double will not build any more pressure then a single, just more flow. and thats why flow is the key !!!! but you still need pressure to turn around the falling weight of the car


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## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

i love my double doesnt use motors can hop it all day


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## LunaticMark (Jul 6, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Jan 26 2011, 06:13 AM~19701049
> *I've never really thought about running 2 pumps to the front, now that I think about it, I don't know why I never really considered the idea. Im sure at one point I got the impression that double pumps weren't challenging enough when it came to hopping,or were overkill for anything other than a triple digit bumper smasher. A lot of the big league hoppers are running single,and a lot of the time its hard to spot the difference between a single and a double,but man I sure love those cars that catch a couple feet on the first lick!
> From what people say, running a double pump off the same battery bank you would a typical single, you dont see much of a performance difference. I think thats the thing that mostly deterred me from considering double, too many batteries for a car thats anything but a strictly competition or exhibition built hopper.
> 
> ...



:uh: :uh: :uh:


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## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 26 2011, 02:53 PM~19704579
> *All you guys are chippers????
> 
> My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....
> ...


 :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Is that right?


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## big pimpin (Nov 22, 2001)

:drama:


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 26 2011, 02:53 PM~19704579
> *All you guys are chippers????
> 
> My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....
> ...


TU MAMA :biggrin:


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 26 2011, 03:53 PM~19704579
> *All you guys are chippers????
> 
> My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....
> ...


I have blown a lot more crap up double than I have single that's for sure. Lol. Double is a lot more fun and a lot less work to keep working. 
But I'm a chipper so what do I know. Lol


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

I not a chipper I dont even leave the ground (but by choice) :biggrin:


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## StreetFame (Apr 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Jan 26 2011, 11:18 AM~19702454
> *FOR A GUY THAT KNOWS A LOT............................U SURE DONT KNOW MUCH !  :biggrin:
> HAVE U EVER TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MOST DBL PUMPS, DO RUN DBL THE BATTS, AND THE INCHES THEY GAIN CAN POSSIBLY BE DUE TO THE WEIGHT OF ADDING 6 OR MORE BATTS JUST TO RUN THE SECOND PUMP ?
> *


 :0 :roflmao:


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 26 2011, 02:53 PM~19704579
> *All you guys are chippers????
> 
> My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....
> ...


*HYDRAULICS 101. SCHOOL IS IN SESSION. WHAT ELSE DOES HOMEBOY WANT TO ASK? RON, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE REASON WHY AN ADEX OR ADEL IS BETTER THAN A DELTA? * :biggrin:


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## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by red Hormiga_@Jan 28 2011, 09:01 AM~19721575
> *HYDRAULICS 101. SCHOOL IS IN SESSION. WHAT ELSE DOES HOMEBOY WANT TO ASK? RON, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE REASON WHY AN ADEX OR ADEL IS BETTER THAN A DELTA?  :biggrin:
> *


becuase 1 is $45 and the other is $450 thats why 1s better lol :biggrin:


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## caddyking (Apr 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Jan 26 2011, 04:06 PM~19704675
> *i love my double doesnt use motors can hop it all day
> *


please elaborate...pics??? :dunno:


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## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Jan 26 2011, 03:06 PM~19704675
> *i love my double doesnt use motors can hop it all day
> *


Thats a suprise with those heavy thumbs you got :roflmao: :roflmao: uffin:


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Jan 26 2011, 04:45 PM~19705014
> *I have blown a lot more crap up double than I have single that's for sure. Lol.  Double is a lot more fun and a lot less work to keep working.
> But I'm a chipper so what do I know. Lol
> *


Naw ,You've earned your strips.  Your not a chipper, Only Stevie and perm are :wow: 

But all seriousness aside....Whether you have 1 or countless number of pumps in series it will create the same pressure output... Multi pumps might hit max pressure faster....
It aint nothing new, it's a science based on mathematics.

What mite be the difference is gears sizes, A #9 or series of #9's will still only build a certain pressure...Not doubling like some might think. Only thing that increases is flow.

But the smaller the displacement of the gear the higher the pressure. So running more of a smaller sized gear in series, will create higher pressure, because of the lower amount of Horse power to make that higher presure.

Thats way we have 2 basic theory's of building a set-up _Pressure or Volume_

both can achieve the same results, and 1 might be better in certain application...Which I'm not gonna get involved in that debate


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## charles85 (Apr 8, 2007)

:drama: :drama:


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## Hoss805 (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 28 2011, 03:39 PM~19724626
> *Naw ,You've earned your strips.    Your not a chipper, Only Stevie and perm are :wow:
> 
> But all seriousness aside....Whether you have 1 or countless number of pumps in series it will create the same pressure output... Multi pumps might hit max pressure faster....
> ...


back in the day, when all there was, was Fenner gears, we used #5's and 6's for hopping, we would get way better results


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 28 2011, 05:39 PM~19724626
> *Naw ,You've earned your strips.    Your not a chipper, Only Stevie and perm are :wow:
> 
> But all seriousness aside....Whether you have 1 or countless number of pumps in series it will create the same pressure output... Multi pumps might hit max pressure faster....
> ...


I'm not arguing with you. I always use more pressure over flow. Always used 9's for doubles and 11's for singles.


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## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by caddyking+Jan 28 2011, 12:22 PM~19722875-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


whyyyyyy you :biggrin:


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## Hannibal Lector (Oct 10, 2006)

Haha Steve even Ron said ur a chipper.


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## 94pimplac (Jul 29, 2007)

ttt


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Jan 26 2011, 11:18 AM~19702454
> *FOR A GUY THAT KNOWS A LOT............................U SURE DONT KNOW MUCH !  :biggrin:
> HAVE U EVER TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION THAT MOST DBL PUMPS, DO RUN DBL THE BATTS, AND THE INCHES THEY GAIN CAN POSSIBLY BE DUE TO THE WEIGHT OF ADDING 6 OR MORE BATTS JUST TO RUN THE SECOND PUMP ?
> *



First of all, I've never claimed to know 'alot', people just assume that because I like to discuss things or address issues the common person pretends doesnt exist, and have background in fields other than hopping cars, that I'm a know-it-all? I consider myself pretty novice at all this. I look at hydros the way a race car builder looks at build a drag car, there's got to be a lot more than adding an aftermarket intake and exhaust. I always assumed that was part of being an enthusiast. I guess its a good thing the internet wasn't around when the first guy started porting heads. He would've have a bunch of people telling him to just get some NOS

With that said, Mufasa, I've always wondered about your second statement, and have generally believed it mostly to be true. Thats why I started this topic, to hopefully find out the contrary. I cant believe that if you took the setup out of your car,built an exact copy, and ran each to its own wheel, that the only gain would be from the extra weight.

Ron E is one of the few people I know who knows whats going on inside a hydro setup,but it sounds like even he is saying a double pump is near pointless? 

If one #9 gear on 72v can efficiently lift a 6000lb load (just a guess?) with a combined piston area of 2.45sq in, then wouldnt 2 #9 gears, off 72v, sharing the weight, with a combined of 4.9sq in, lift at least twice as fast?


I'm guessing a lot of people have never tried 2" OD cy;inders (which would have an area somewhere around two 1.5"ers ) on double pump because they think they have doubled the pressure ability of the setup, like Ron said,but I have seen the recommendations change from double 9 or double 11, to double 5 and double 7...


You know its sad that people roll their eyes at these topics. Hopefully its just because I'm a know-it-all hater nerd, and not because the topic isn't worth discussing..


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Hoss805+Jan 28 2011, 06:19 PM~19724833-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know, I was givin you props ,you've been puttin in work for years.  

I run mostly #9's in dbl's too, some higher voltage cars we use both 11's and 13's with custom cylinders


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## capriceman75 (Nov 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Jan 26 2011, 12:18 PM~19702454
> *FOR A GUY THAT KNOWS A LOT............................U SURE DONT KNOW MUCH !  :biggrin:
> 
> *


 :roflmao:


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 29 2011, 08:50 PM~19733066
> *or even PN107's which had the same gear size as a #5 but with 1 less tooth
> I know, I was givin you props ,you've been puttin in work for years.
> 
> ...


Much appreciated Ron. You have been too.


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Jan 29 2011, 06:43 PM~19732604
> *First of all, I've never claimed to know 'alot', people just assume that because I like to discuss things or address issues the common person pretends doesnt exist, and have background in fields other than hopping cars, that I'm a know-it-all? I consider myself pretty novice at all this. I look at hydros the way a race car builder looks at build a drag car, there's got to be a lot more than adding an aftermarket intake and exhaust. I always assumed that was part of being an enthusiast. I guess its a good thing the internet wasn't around when the first guy started porting heads. He would've have a bunch of people telling him to just get some NOS
> 
> With that said, Mufasa, I've always wondered about your second statement, and have generally believed it mostly to be true. Thats why I started this topic, to hopefully find out the contrary. I cant believe that if you took the setup out of your car,built an exact copy, and ran each to its own wheel, that the only gain would be from the extra weight.
> ...


YES , BUT MAINLY CUZ THE EXTRA FLOW BEING PROVIDED BY THE EXTRA GEAR.........GUESS U COULD KINDA COMPARE IT TO 2) 12V BATTS IN PARALLEL, SAME VOLTAGE......TWICE AMPS..........MORE POWER, BUT NOT BECAUSE OF VOLTS, BUT MORE AMPERAGE............


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## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 28 2011, 05:39 PM~19724626
> *Naw ,You've earned your strips.    Your not a chipper, Only Stevie and perm are :wow:
> 
> But all seriousness aside....Whether you have 1 or countless number of pumps in series it will create the same pressure output... Multi pumps might hit max pressure faster....
> ...


 :biggrin: :biggrin: 
Seems like i just asked u bout this the other day :biggrin:


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## yaboirimp (Sep 5, 2008)

dubble pump with 9s all day on split banks sharing the equal quantity of voltage has always worked for me 60v or better per pump. bigger pumpheads and more vaults on single just has not worked for me. 

then again, people have their preference.


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## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Hannibal Lector_@Jan 29 2011, 06:15 PM~19732038
> *Haha Steve even Ron said ur a chipper.
> *


 :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

:drama:


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## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Jan 29 2011, 06:43 PM~19732604
> *If one #9 gear on 72v can efficiently lift a 6000lb load (just a guess?) with a combined piston area of 2.45sq in, then wouldnt 2 #9 gears, off 72v, sharing the weight, with a combined  of 4.9sq in, lift at least twice as fast?
> *


Is this piston area referring to the area of the cylinder housing ID?


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by NY-BOSSMAN_@Feb 2 2011, 04:44 PM~19769296
> *:drama:
> *


 :0 THOUGHT U GOT LOCKED UP AGAIN?? :happysad:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Feb 2 2011, 08:02 PM~19769491
> *:0 THOUGHT U GOT LOCKED UP AGAIN?? :happysad:
> *


i did some issues but im good now :biggrin:


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## look_what_i_can_do (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Jan 26 2011, 06:13 AM~19701049
> *I've never really thought about running 2 pumps to the front, now that I think about it, I don't know why I never really considered the idea. Im sure at one point I got the impression that double pumps weren't challenging enough when it came to hopping,or were overkill for anything other than a triple digit bumper smasher. A lot of the big league hoppers are running single,and a lot of the time its hard to spot the difference between a single and a double,but man I sure love those cars that catch a couple feet on the first lick!
> From what people say, running a double pump off the same battery bank you would a typical single, you dont see much of a performance difference. I think thats the thing that mostly deterred me from considering double, too many batteries for a car thats anything but a strictly competition or exhibition built hopper.
> 
> ...


 ive thought about the same stuff.. But ima tell you what i have learned and you can go from there.. I bought a double pump hopper and never got to see how it hit with both pumps and 14 batterys.. Burnt the motors and stripped the gears off the blocks.. But i did replace both pumps with 1 1/2 inch fatboy pump for a short while.. ran both banks paralell and thats when i learned about amperage.. Volts make the car hop fast but the amps make that pump build and BUILD pressure.. and thats where you GAIN inches from... cuz now i stripped the entire trunk and ran just 8 batterys to a single pump piston 1 inch port and fittings to 1/2 hoses.. and the pump still doesnt build half the pressure the little 1/2 inch ported fatboy did with the exact same pump head.. you getting my hint?


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 2 2011, 05:49 PM~19769356
> *Is this piston area referring to the area of the cylinder housing ID?
> *


Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them. 
If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift. The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
A x P = (X < C) = F(2)


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## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 09:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *


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## *New Movement Md* (Sep 4, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 11:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *




:wow: Yeah, Imma have to leave on this one. THANKS Ron... :biggrin:


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## trunkgotknock (Aug 17, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 08:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *


..... isaac newton :dunno: :biggrin:


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## BrownAzt3ka (May 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by trunkgotknock_@Feb 2 2011, 11:20 PM~19773390
> *..... isaac newton  :dunno:  :biggrin:
> *


nah it the pythagorean theorem... lol :biggrin:


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## lowlifehydraulics (Jun 23, 2005)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

> _Originally posted by BrownAzt3ka_@Feb 2 2011, 10:28 PM~19773478
> *nah it the pythagorean theorem... lol :biggrin:
> *


A SQUARED + B SQUARED = C SQUARED :dunno:


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## caddyking (Apr 4, 2004)

A x P = (X < C) = F(2) is the formula for...


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## KINGLOWNESS (Nov 13, 2002)

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics+Feb 2 2011, 08:08 PM~19771610-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And maybe I don't understand him correctly but it sounds like he's saying doubling the area and doubling the flow (adding a second gear) will double the speed. But doubling the area also doubles the volume so the "doubling" cancels out and you get no change because it takes twice as long to fill the cylinder.

Volume = Area X Height of cylinder

It might even be slower since if you're running both pumps off the same bank.


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## bigboylarry (Jun 19, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Jan 26 2011, 02:53 PM~19704579
> *All you guys are chippers????
> 
> My cutlass did the same dbl and single, just took a few more hits....
> ...


amen to that , going on two yrs double wit 12 batts same black motors :cheesy:


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## BrownAzt3ka (May 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 2 2011, 11:36 PM~19773589
> *A SQUARED + B SQUARED = C SQUARED :dunno:
> *


IT WAS A JOKE :cheesy: :biggrin:


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## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 08:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *


Your gonna melt some brains with that one :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## big pimpin (Nov 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Team CCE_@Feb 3 2011, 11:11 AM~19776886
> *Your gonna melt some brains with that one  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
> *


He just burned my retinas!!!!!!!! :burn:


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## unforgiven50insp (Nov 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Team CCE_@Feb 3 2011, 12:11 PM~19776886
> *Your gonna melt some brains with that one  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
> *


 :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## tearitup (Dec 4, 2008)

very interesting topic.

Why does every one always give Andrew shit?

its disgusting how many people want to knock on someone for using their brain.

Anybody can throw parts together and eventually get somewhere through trail and error. Im more of the get it right the first time.

IMO the hydro Pressure vs volume is kind of like the Torque vs horsepower war.

Which is better?????? neither. its a combination of both and is specific to the application.


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by tearitup_@Feb 3 2011, 02:50 PM~19778064
> *very interesting topic.
> 
> Why does every one always give Andrew shit?its disgusting how many people want to knock on someone for using their brain.
> ...


I think most people would rather see somebody build something properly then talk about it. Even if he has a valid point with most of his ideas they still need to be put into action for them to hold any weight. There comes a time to show and prove, thats just how it works. I'm not opposed to things being made better or thinking outside the box myself but the average guy doesn't think that much about how things work or if they could be improved on.


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## big pimpin (Nov 22, 2001)

:0 :dunno:


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Feb 3 2011, 12:59 PM~19778128
> *I think most people would rather see somebody build something properly then talk about it. Even if he has a valid point with most of his ideas they still need to be put into action for them to hold any weight. There comes a time to show and prove, thats just how it works. I'm not opposed to things being made better or thinking outside the box myself but the average guy doesn't think that much about how things work or if they could be improved on.
> *


*THIS IS TRUE FOR MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN THIS FORUM. THERE ARE SOME THAT I HAVE SEEN POSTING ADVICE, TELLING OTHERS HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING BETTER, OR PUTTING OTHERS DOWN FOR THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE, BUT HAVE YET TO SEE THOSE INDIVIDUALS SHOW WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. SIMPLY PUT- IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT, THEN DON'T SPEAK ON IT. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.*


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## MR.MEMO (Sep 5, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 10:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2) *


that would be a cool sig line


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## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by tearitup+Feb 3 2011, 12:50 PM~19778064-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## THE REAL BIG M (Jan 22, 2008)

> _Originally posted by red Hormiga_@Feb 3 2011, 05:09 PM~19780044
> *THIS IS TRUE FOR MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN THIS FORUM. THERE ARE SOME THAT I HAVE SEEN POSTING ADVICE, TELLING OTHERS HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING BETTER, OR PUTTING OTHERS DOWN FOR THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE, BUT HAVE YET TO SEE THOSE INDIVIDUALS SHOW WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. SIMPLY PUT- IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT, THEN DON'T SPEAK ON IT. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
> *


----------



## TROUBLESOME (Aug 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by big pimpin_@Feb 3 2011, 02:41 PM~19778847
> *:0  :dunno:
> 
> 
> ...


This chart isn't effective in our set-ups, because it is subtracting the the are that the shaft is taking up, It is for a push pull cylinder, The sq. cu in of a 1 & 3/8 I.D cylinder is still more at 2.29 cubes compare to 1.5 , And this force is at the shaft??? we are pushing down into a cantilever on the control arm which on a G-body is about 65%....Impalas is around 82%. and Mini truck is 90 to 92 %

which is all multiplied by 2


----------



## THE REAL BIG M (Jan 22, 2008)




----------



## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by THE REAL BIG M_@Feb 3 2011, 08:37 PM~19781402
> *
> 
> 
> ...


Perms favorite food
Frito Lays


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by THE REAL BIG M+Feb 3 2011, 08:03 PM~19780969-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :biggrin: :biggrin:


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

coool discussion rons out there again sharing his knowledge and making eveybody think ,shame no other manufactures are doing the same either they dont know or they dont wanna show lol


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 3 2011, 09:41 PM~19782027
> *coool discussion rons out there again sharing his knowledge and making eveybody think ,shame no other manufactures are doing the same either they dont know or they dont wanna show lol
> *


----------



## Theamazingracist (Feb 4, 2011)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 3 2011, 07:59 AM~19775501
> *I understand that. So, Andrew asked this:
> And maybe I don't understand him correctly but it sounds like he's saying doubling the area and doubling the flow (adding a second gear) will double the speed. But doubling the area also doubles the volume so the "doubling" cancels out and you get no change because it takes twice as long to fill the cylinder.
> 
> ...


Adding another piston with the lines tied wouldn't increase speed because the hydraulic lift is a force-multiplying device with a multiplication factor equal to the ratio of the areas of the two pistons. Even if an entirely separate hydraulic unit was added, I think the lift speed would be the same (even though the force would be divided between two hydraulic units?). Don't know for sure at all. I'll add my expertise after I've taken some Fluid Mechanics.




> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Jan 26 2011, 08:13 AM~19701049
> *I've never really thought about running 2 pumps to the front, now that I think about it, I don't know why I never really considered the idea. Im sure at one point I got the impression that double pumps weren't challenging enough when it came to hopping,or were overkill for anything other than a triple digit bumper smasher. A lot of the big league hoppers are running single,and a lot of the time its hard to spot the difference between a single and a double,but man I sure love those cars that catch a couple feet on the first lick!
> From what people say, running a double pump off the same battery bank you would a typical single, you dont see much of a performance difference. I think thats the thing that mostly deterred me from considering double, too many batteries for a car thats anything but a strictly competition or exhibition built hopper.
> 
> ...


----------



## FLAKED FLATOP (Jul 5, 2005)

wow this thred turned to mud very quick..... :uh: :uh:


----------



## FLAKED FLATOP (Jul 5, 2005)

btw i prefer double..... :biggrin:


----------



## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 3 2011, 06:59 AM~19775501
> *I understand that. So, Andrew asked this:
> And maybe I don't understand him correctly but it sounds like he's saying doubling the area and doubling the flow (adding a second gear) will double the speed. But doubling the area also doubles the volume so the "doubling" cancels out and you get no change because it takes twice as long to fill the cylinder.
> 
> ...



Thats my main question.

A single pump on a single cylinder, lifting, lets say a generic 5000lbs platform. Now add another identical pump with its own power supply, and another equal cylinder. The components are going to last longer due to less strain, but will it lift any faster? If the single pump was never struggling in the first place, I suppose not. But since 2 setups are sharing the work,and motors bog to a pretty unhealthy amount while catching the front end on a single pump, the pumps wont bog down as much while hopping, and be able to reach high RPMs quicker? :dunno: 

Thinking back, I remember having a manifold setup on a heavy chevy, 36v with 1.5" cylinders. When you would lift only one corner, it would fling up like crazy, and the pump wouldnt sound bogged at all. Way faster and less stressfull than lifting the whole front. So the reduced load of only lifting one side,even though the piston area is halfed, has got to make for a powerful setup with one pump to each 1 wheel on regular sized cylinders.

It just seems like there would be a distinct difference between single and double, something obvious,like 4cylinder vs 8cylinder, ya know? But its the airbag hoppers that are standing out. hitting back bumper on the first lick... which sucks because airbags just aren't cool to me

I'd like to see a side by side comparison, single to double,without changing anything but the pumps. I know people gonna say quit talking and do it,but its hard to imagine some broke guy from Arkansas is the first one whos curious about the capabilities of this stuff.


----------



## charles85 (Apr 8, 2007)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 3 2011, 11:41 PM~19783671
> *Thats my main question.
> 
> A single pump on a single cylinder, lifting, lets say a generic 5000lbs platform. Now add another identical pump with its own power supply, and another equal cylinder. The components are going to last longer due to less strain, but will it lift any faster? If the single pump was never struggling in the first place, I suppose not. But since 2 setups are sharing the work,and motors bog to a pretty unhealthy amount while catching the front end on a single pump, the pumps wont bog down as much while hopping, and be able to reach high RPMs quicker?  :dunno:
> ...


I have been reading this topic and I seen back in my day where some people have run double pumps but the kicker was they would run different size gears,so one pump had #9 & the other #7 or #9 & #11 or what work with the set up to get it going , now it took some work to do. Never understand why it worked that way .


----------



## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH+Feb 3 2011, 10:41 PM~19783671-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In this case you’re comparing one pump filling two cylinders to one pump filling one cylinder. Earlier you were comparing filling one cylinder with one pump to filling two cylinders with two pumps. They are two different things. Filling two cylinders with one pump halves your flow so of course it will be slower. Filling one cylinder with one pump does not do that. This is again assuming each cylinder is lifting the same load.



> _Originally posted by AndrewH+Feb 3 2011, 10:41 PM~19783671-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It’s wise to do some research but eventually you’re going to have to build something and try it. Math and physics can only get you so far.


----------



## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Theamazingracist_@Feb 3 2011, 09:23 PM~19782613
> *Adding another piston with the lines tied wouldn't increase speed because the hydraulic lift is a force-multiplying device with a multiplication factor equal to the ratio of the areas of the two pistons. Even if an entirely separate hydraulic unit was added, I think the lift speed would be the same (even though the force would be divided between two hydraulic units?). Don't know for sure at all. I'll add my expertise after I've taken some Fluid Mechanics.
> *


One undergrad class in fluid mechanics is not going to enlighten you and you sure as hell aren't going to be an expert in fluids after that one class. You'll learn more applicable information for lowrider hydraulics from your thermodynamics class. Pay attention to that one and mechanical design classes. And even after all that schoolin' you'll know nothing until you build something that compete's.


----------



## bigboylarry (Jun 19, 2007)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 3 2011, 10:41 PM~19783671
> *Thats my main question.
> 
> A single pump on a single cylinder, lifting, lets say a generic 5000lbs platform. Now add another identical pump with its own power supply, and another equal cylinder. The components are going to last longer due to less strain, but will it lift any faster? If the single pump was never struggling in the first place, I suppose not. But since 2 setups are sharing the work,and motors bog to a pretty unhealthy amount while catching the front end on a single pump, the pumps wont bog down as much while hopping, and be able to reach high RPMs quicker?  :dunno:
> ...


shit im a broke guy from arkansas and ill put my double pump next to your single or switch to single against your double , i aint got shit else to do


----------



## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

AndrewH always cracks me up. He daydreams about building hoppers and calls it theory. Lmao.


----------



## bigboylarry (Jun 19, 2007)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 4 2011, 03:34 PM~19789133
> *AndrewH always cracks me up. He daydreams about building hoppers and calls it theory. Lmao.
> *


maybe hes gonna change the game some day :dunno:


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 3 2011, 10:41 PM~19783671
> *
> I'd like to see a side by side comparison, single to double,without changing anything but the pumps. I know people gonna say quit talking and do it,but its hard to imagine some broke guy from Arkansas is the first one whos curious about the capabilities of this stuff.
> *


ron did it with his cutty i swapped the pumps out myself ,the car would do almost the same numbers the double set up the car would go to bumper hard in like 3-4 licks single it took like 6-7 to get up there


----------



## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 4 2011, 11:28 PM~19792828
> *ron did it with his cutty i swapped the pumps out myself ,the car would do almost the same numbers the double set up the car would go to bumper hard in like 3-4 licks single it took like 6-7 to get up there
> *


Maybe if the bumper wasn't there to stop the car the double would have went higher.... :dunno:


----------



## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 3 2011, 10:41 PM~19783671
> *I'd like to see a side by side comparison, single to double,without changing anything but the pumps. I know people gonna say quit talking and do it,but its hard to imagine some broke guy from Arkansas is the first one whos curious about the capabilities of this stuff.
> *


If you already have a lifted car with two pumps you could easily come up with a test rig for this. Just use less voltage and the pumps,batteries and car you already have. For example compare a single at 36V to a double with two banks at 36 volts (if you have a 2 pump 6 batt setup).


----------



## bigboylarry (Jun 19, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 4 2011, 11:28 PM~19792828
> *ron did it with his cutty i swapped the pumps out myself ,the car would do almost the same numbers the double set up the car would go to bumper hard in like 3-4 licks single it took like 6-7 to get up there
> *


what up stevie


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 5 2011, 12:28 AM~19792828
> *ron did it with his cutty i swapped the pumps out myself ,the car would do almost the same numbers the double set up the car would go to bumper hard in like 3-4 licks single it took like 6-7 to get up there
> *


Now u just need to work on ur own car and get it ready


----------



## Theamazingracist (Feb 4, 2011)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 4 2011, 08:38 AM~19785527
> *One undergrad class in fluid mechanics is not going to enlighten you and you sure as hell aren't going to be an expert in fluids after that one class. You'll learn more applicable information for lowrider hydraulics from your thermodynamics class. Pay attention to that one and mechanical design classes. And even after all that schoolin' you'll know nothing until you build something that compete's.
> *


----------



## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 4 2011, 06:34 PM~19789133
> *AndrewH always cracks me up. He daydreams about building hoppers and calls it theory. Lmao.
> *


 :roflmao:


----------



## HOM1EZ_OnLY_509 (Nov 12, 2010)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 08:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *


 :wow:


----------



## hitinswchzonbichs (Jan 15, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 2 2011, 08:08 PM~19771610
> *Yes this is where the math or formulas come in. Which most of us dont use them.
> If you took the head area that the oil pushes down on(A), times it by the pressure(P) ,it will give you the force it can lift.  The force would be at cylinder center, and that would need to be divided by the off set of center to out most wheel edge( C ) That is the real lifting equivalent. Most of it is unbelievable what we do scientifically but it does happen. As most can see.
> A x P = (X < C) = F(2)
> *


 :thumbsup: BLAISE PASCALS LAW ALSO APPLIES...

F = P X A

FORCE IS EQUAL TO PRESSURE X AREA = F
PRESSURE IS EQUAL TO FORCE / AREA = P
AREA IS EQUAL TO FORCE / PRESSURE = A

SHIT I JUST LEARNED THIS IN PLASTICS INJECTION MOLDING. WHICH IS CONTROLLED BY HYDRAULICS. STIL TRYING TO GRASP THE WHOLE CONCEPT LOL. MAYBE WILL HELP SOME PEEPS IN HERE. :wow:


----------



## HOM1EZ_OnLY_509 (Nov 12, 2010)

> _Originally posted by hitinswchzonbichs_@Feb 6 2011, 07:05 PM~19803970
> *:thumbsup:  BLAISE PASCALS LAW ALSO APPLIES...
> 
> F = P X A
> ...


----------



## CP (Aug 9, 2001)

Pi r round.


----------



## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by red Hormiga_@Feb 3 2011, 05:09 PM~19780044
> *THIS IS TRUE FOR MANY OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN THIS FORUM. THERE ARE SOME THAT I HAVE SEEN POSTING ADVICE, TELLING OTHERS HOW TO MAKE SOMETHING BETTER, OR PUTTING OTHERS DOWN FOR THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE, BUT HAVE YET TO SEE THOSE INDIVIDUALS SHOW WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. SIMPLY PUT- IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT, THEN DON'T SPEAK ON IT. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.
> *


 :biggrin:


----------



## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 3 2011, 08:41 PM~19782027
> *coool discussion rons out there again sharing his knowledge and making eveybody think ,shame no other manufactures are doing the same either they dont know or they dont wanna show lol
> *


 :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: You must be on the left one :biggrin: I could through a bunch of big words and calculations out there to, but why..............everybody on here knows it all already. Well that the general attitude anyway. In the end, you still gotta use what works for you. What might work for one, might not for the next. Way more factors than just cylinders, or just gears. I'm jus sayin' uffin:


----------



## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 4 2011, 06:38 AM~19785527
> *One undergrad class in fluid mechanics is not going to enlighten you and you sure as hell aren't going to be an expert in fluids after that one class. You'll learn more applicable information for lowrider hydraulics from your thermodynamics class. Pay attention to that one and mechanical design classes. And even after all that schoolin' you'll know nothing until you build something that compete's.
> *


 :thumbsup:


----------



## BRAVO (Jan 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 5 2011, 12:34 AM~19789133
> *AndrewH always cracks me up. He daydreams about building hoppers and calls it theory. Lmao.
> *


lol


----------



## hitinswchzonbichs (Jan 15, 2008)

:roflmao:


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bigboylarry_@Feb 5 2011, 09:45 AM~19794369
> *what up stevie
> *


sup chip hows shit with yall


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pjay+Feb 5 2011, 04:31 PM~19796399-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahaha yeah wotever bruce how did your truck do at the supershow this year :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: not saying a word chipper :biggrin:


----------



## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 8 2011, 01:42 PM~19819224
> *she will be ready  :biggrin:
> hahaha yeah wotever bruce how did your truck do at the supershow this year  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin: not saying a word chipper  :biggrin:
> *


 :biggrin: :roflmao: :roflmao: They weren't ready for the truck, just a lil single pump. Let me know when that double pump is ready, I'll show ya  :biggrin: :0 :0


----------



## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 4 2011, 04:34 PM~19789133
> *AndrewH always cracks me up. He daydreams about building hoppers and calls it theory. Lmao.
> *



And what do you do? Hurry up and build a generic ghetto-built POS like everyone elses so you can fit in to a group with technical standards so low, theyll actually accept your dumb ass?

It aint my fault I'm on my own when it comes to learning stuff that I'd be able to read in a magazine or see in a shop if it was offroading or dirt track related.

I dont know why most lowriders/hoppers are so against learning, and love ignorance so much. But thats the sole reason I dog on the industry and the sport.


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Team CCE_@Feb 8 2011, 01:55 PM~19819320
> *:biggrin:  :roflmao:  :roflmao: They weren't ready for the truck, just a lil single pump. Let me know when that double pump is ready, I'll show ya   :biggrin:  :0  :0
> *


maybe we can arange summat i just so happen to have a mazda truck in my yard hmmm now what to do :biggrin:


----------



## GT~CHAIO (Oct 23, 2010)

> _Originally posted by THE REAL BIG M_@Feb 3 2011, 07:03 PM~19780969
> *
> 
> 
> ...


 :wow:


----------



## Team CCE (Jan 24, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 8 2011, 05:09 PM~19820689
> *maybe we can arange summat i just so happen to have a mazda truck in my yard hmmm now what to do  :biggrin:
> *


 :0 :0 :biggrin: :run:


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by stevie d+Feb 8 2011, 06:09 PM~19820689-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :drama: :drama: :biggrin: :biggrin:


----------



## 96RAPEMASTER (Dec 21, 2010)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 8 2011, 04:11 PM~19819398
> *And what do you do? Hurry up and build a generic ghetto-built POS like everyone elses so you can fit in to a group with technical standards so low, theyll actually accept your dumb ass?
> 
> It aint my fault I'm on my own when it comes to learning stuff that I'd be able to read in a magazine or see in a shop if it was offroading or dirt track related.
> ...


LETS SEE PICS OF YOUR WORK


----------



## bigboylarry (Jun 19, 2007)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 8 2011, 01:39 PM~19819199
> *sup chip hows shit with yall
> *


pretty good here waiting for the snow to go just got 21 inches from 3am to 12pm this morning :0 so its slowing progress :angry:


----------



## Unity_Jon (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 8 2011, 05:09 PM~19820689
> *maybe we can arange summat i just so happen to have a mazda truck in my yard hmmm now what to do  :biggrin:
> *



put it to one side and finish Chris' Monte, he needs it yesterday LOL :thumbsup:


----------



## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 8 2011, 05:11 PM~19819398
> *And what do you do? Hurry up and build a generic ghetto-built POS like everyone elses so you can fit in to a group with technical standards so low, theyll actually accept your dumb ass?
> 
> It aint my fault I'm on my own when it comes to learning stuff that I'd be able to read in a magazine or see in a shop if it was offroading or dirt track related.
> ...


Fail. You aint ever done shit but talk on an internet forum. No pics of your work, nothing to document your success or failures (other than this topic).

I challenge you to put up or shut up. Serve me on the bumper or with somethin as simple as posting ANYTHING that you have contributed or STFU once and for all.


----------



## stevie d (Oct 30, 2002)

> _Originally posted by bigboylarry_@Feb 9 2011, 09:54 PM~19832458
> *pretty good here waiting for the snow to go  just got 21 inches from 3am to 12pm this morning  :0  so its slowing progress :angry:
> *


tell me about it my yard is now a mud pit


----------



## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 13 2011, 06:00 PM~19860300
> *Fail. You aint ever done shit but talk on an internet forum. No pics of your work, nothing to document your success or failures (other than this topic).
> 
> I challenge you to put up or shut up. Serve me on the bumper or with somethin as simple as posting ANYTHING that you have contributed or STFU once and for all.
> *


 :0


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by stevie d_@Feb 13 2011, 10:22 PM~19862438
> *tell me about it my yard is now a mud pit
> *


i saw that today first hand :biggrin: :biggrin:


----------



## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

> _Originally posted by 96RAPEMASTER_@Feb 8 2011, 07:12 PM~19821612
> *LETS SEE PICS OF YOUR WORK
> *


 idk how to upload videos but this is some of the homei andrew's work he dont play around when it comes to biulding cars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P0QZDdAikU


----------



## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Feb 13 2011, 06:00 PM~19860300
> *Fail. You aint ever done shit but talk on an internet forum. No pics of your work, nothing to document your success or failures (other than this topic).
> 
> I challenge you to put up or shut up. Serve me on the bumper or with somethin as simple as posting ANYTHING that you have contributed or STFU once and for all.
> *


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P0QZDdAikU here you go ***


----------



## BRAVO (Jan 4, 2002)

lol! crickets??

i was wanting to see some badass custom tank pressure plate bolts


----------



## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

its a work in progress the homie does what he says he can do


----------



## Classic Customs (Oct 31, 2008)

lol


----------



## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 15 2011, 09:39 AM~19874199
> *idk how to upload videos but this is some of the homei andrew's work he dont play around when it comes to biulding cars *


See it's not that hard to post some work. Even that one simple video goes a long way to show he's putting in some work. Thats all most guys need to take somebody seriously. Shit I'll even say nice job to that video, looks like the rear suspension works real good. :thumbsup:


----------



## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

:thumbsup:


----------



## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 15 2011, 08:39 AM~19874199
> *idk how to upload videos but this is some of the homei andrew's work he dont play around when it comes to biulding cars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P0QZDdAikU
> *


----------



## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

Am I understanding everything correctly?:


A second pump will not increase pressure, it will increase volume. Roughly double?

More voltage will spin the motor faster(hp), but not add any torque. Torque is based on load.

Spinning the motor faster will not increase pressure, it will increase volume?




So if you do not have enough pressure to begin with, additional volume(from more voltage, larger gear, or second pump. I'm thinking the larger gear could make it worse.) will not help? Is the only way to increase pressure by changing pumphead?(Besides losses from pumbing, etc.). If that makes sense I think it would explain why I barely gained any inches going from 36v single, to 72v single, to 72v double...all with #11 marz.:banghead: Although from dumped out to locked up it was definitely faster. Maybe the additional volume lifts it up quicker but I need more pressure to counteract the weight of the car falling down.  Time to switch to #7's?


Crazy idea....what about isolating the pumps from ground, and running the motors in series? Maybe 10+ batts in series , current draw would be half. Hmmm....


----------



## Hydros (Apr 30, 2002)

charles85 said:


> I have been reading this topic and I seen back in my day where some people have run double pumps but the kicker was they would run different size gears,so one pump had #9 & the other #7 or #9 & #11 or what work with the set up to get it going , now it took some work to do. Never understand why it worked that way .


Andrew here is the deal, (IMO) as with any passenger car, we use a transmission. But when hopping, no one I know lets out they do the same thing. On a double I'd use one gear and one type of motor, then a different size gear with a different type of motor. One works to smack you up, (torque or 1st gear in a passenger car) then the other gets you up to speed. (flow) This is using both pumps at the same time.


----------



## Hydros (Apr 30, 2002)

Hydros said:


> Andrew here is the deal, (IMO) as with any passenger car, we use a transmission. But when hopping, no one I know lets out they do the same thing. On a double I'd use one gear and one type of motor, then a different size gear with a different type of motor. One works to smack you up, (torque or 1st gear in a passenger car) then the other gets you up to speed. (flow) This is using both pumps at the same time.


Getting even deeper into theory, which may not be practical, use two different diameter cylinders on each side of the front, using the same motor and gears. But I kinda think the fluid with follow the path of least resistance, a work around may be to use a shorter cylinder and (IMO) that would be the larger diameters.


----------



## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

Hydros said:


> Andrew here is the deal, (IMO) as with any passenger car, we use a transmission. But when hopping, no one I know lets out they do the same thing. On a double I'd use one gear and one type of motor, then a different size gear with a different type of motor. One works to smack you up, (torque or 1st gear in a passenger car) then the other gets you up to speed. (flow) This is using both pumps at the same time.


Doesnt work that way. U cant run 1st and 2nd gear on a car at the same time....thats why its called a transmission. I understand the thought behind it, but 2 pump functioning at the same time does not compare to seperate 1st n 2nd gears...


----------



## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

MUFASA said:


> Doesnt work that way. U cant run 1st and 2nd gear on a car at the same time....thats why its called a transmission. I understand the thought behind it, but 2 pump functioning at the same time does not compare to seperate 1st n 2nd gears...


The way I am picturing it, running a #7 and a #11 together would be like running two #9s....right?


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## Hydros (Apr 30, 2002)

87gbody said:


> The way I am picturing it, running a #7 and a #11 together would be like running two #9s....right?


Fellow riders, we will use a different voltage to the high torque, then we bring the volts up for the hi flow pump. 

Hi torgue motor with a large pump head,
then
Saco with a #13 (or even a tandem pump head) at what ever the max volts you can run.

If two pump hoppers use two #13 pump heads, then toss my theory in the round filing cabinet.

Looking at the spec of the Marz, I see 1.4 gpm flow, but looking at the tandem pump heads, I see at least 3.8 (up to 10 gpm, I think) 
Can we get up on the 3.8s GMP pump heads? 
Question: If not, why not? Maybe because the flow is too high compared to the torque? 

Anyone ever tell you they use tandem pump heads?
Question, if not, why not?

Yes 1st and 2nd gear do not work at the same time, but the volts ARE the transmission gear settings. One works to get going, then is cancelled out to it's max then the flow (gear) comes into play when the torque is not needed.


But like I said, If two pump hoppers use two #13 pump heads, then toss my theory.

Why we don't hop on tandem pump heads is a mystery to me. Maybe because of the motors we use??


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## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

Anyone know what kind of RPM to expect from SACO motors?


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