# Which do you prefer?



## warrantykiller04 (Apr 25, 2006)

I have a chrysler 300, what are the pros and cons of front or rear facing?

I have 2 12" subs in a slot ported box, right now they are front facing, but i was wondering if i should turn them around?


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

turn them around, put them about 6-8" away from the rear trunk wall(towards the plate) and then you'll be happy

oh, don't forget to bolt down your license plate better, it will move a little more like this, but this is about the loudest to make a trunk system


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## warrantykiller04 (Apr 25, 2006)

what is the recommended length of your ground cable also?, currently its about a foot, but if i turn them around and put them up close to the trunk, i will need to make it about 3 ft,


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by warrantykiller04_@Oct 21 2009, 11:44 AM~15422643
> *what is the recommended length of your ground cable also?, currently its about a foot, but if i turn them around and put them up close to the trunk, i will need to make it about 3 ft,
> *


if that ground cable is going directly to your battery still, that won't be an issue


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## warrantykiller04 (Apr 25, 2006)

so is it better to be grounded to the battery than to like the metal of the car where i have it now? sorry if these are dumb questions, this was my first install,


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by warrantykiller04_@Oct 21 2009, 11:51 AM~15422726
> *so is it better to be grounded to the battery than to like the metal of the car where i have it now?  sorry if these are dumb questions, this was my first install,
> *


if the option is available, which in your case it is, i would ground directly to the battery, alot of competition cars actually do this and run several runs of ground cable up front to the alternator/engine as well to increase the power the alternator is pushing to the rear battery/batteries.

so long as you still have a fuse on your power wire you are fine, and you might even notice a slight difference


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

If you are going to ground to the battery you still need to ground to the chasis. It is not safe to only ground to the battery. You may run a length of ground to your battery, but then the ground on the battery to chasis still needs to be upgraded. It is safer to just ground the amp to chasis, and upgrade your battery ground.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

FACE THEM TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE TRUNK, WILL ALLOW THE BASS RAVE TO TRAVEL FARTHER BY BOUNCING THE RAVE OFF THE BACK TRUNK, AND THEN TRAVELING FOREWARD


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## warrantykiller04 (Apr 25, 2006)

i turned them towards the truck and they sound much better!


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## baggedout81 (Jan 5, 2009)

I prefer face down ass up..... no ****

But no gotta go port to the back


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by 79 cutty_@Oct 21 2009, 12:43 PM~15423696
> *If you are going to ground to the battery you still need to ground to the chasis. It is not safe to only ground to the battery. You may run a length of ground to your battery, but then the ground on the battery to chasis still needs to be upgraded. It is safer to just ground the amp to chasis, and upgrade your battery ground.
> *


not safe?? um no thats not true at all. The best possible ground is to the negative post on the batt. As mentioned above the competition cars do it that way for a reason.

But its also a good idea to upgrade your big three wires under the hood. Which will include your main grounds.

But you dont need to ground to the chassis if you're already grounding under the hood there would be no need for that at all.


now to answer the original posters question. You will probably find itll be louder facing backwards but it also depends how your enclosure is designed if its ported. If you're running a sealed box I highly suggest you upgrade to ported asap. Also you can experiment with different distances to the back to see which one sounds the best to you. 

However if the rear seats folded down in your car (im pretty sure the seats in a 300 dont fold down) then you would get the best results with port and woofer facing forward and having your box fiberglassed into the opening behind the back seats...this way it completely isolates the woofer into the cabin of the vehicle and not in the trunk. You'll get way way less rattle and more output...but your enclosure will need to be designed a bit differently aswell and sometimes its a messy job to glass the enclosure into the opening of the seat/trunk


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

i'd highly recomend at least 1 run of 1/0 awg wire running from the alt to the battery, especially as far away as your battery is from the alternator. being i HIGHLY doubt your factory wiring running between is that large...you WILL notice a differance in that alone, but also upgrading all grounds will yeild better power as well. running more then 1 run of 1/0 wouldn't hurt, or at the least 2-3 runs of 2 awg if you can find that considerably cheaper then 1/0


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 12:46 AM~15431468
> *not safe?? um no thats not true at all.  The best possible ground is to the negative post on the batt.  As mentioned above the competition cars do it that way for a reason.
> 
> But its also a good idea to upgrade your big three wires under the hood.  Which will include your main grounds.
> ...


The competition cars do not solely ground to the battery because that is not the best possible ground. Sure some of them may have runs of ground off their batteries...but in all cases they have some sort of chasis ground.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized+Oct 22 2009, 02:46 AM~15431468-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THANKS 79. I MEAN I AM TRYIN G TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HIS INFO COMES FROM. AND WHAT HE SAID ABOUT POSITIONING IS COMPLETELY ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND HMMM SWITCH TO A PORTED BOX IF YOU HAVE A SEALED BOX.. :uh: WOW, JUST TOSS OUT INFO


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 22 2009, 08:02 AM~15432779
> *THANKS 79.  I MEAN I AM TRYIN G TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HIS INFO COMES FROM.   AND WHAT HE SAID ABOUT POSITIONING IS COMPLETELY ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND HMMM SWITCH TO A PORTED BOX IF YOU HAVE A SEALED BOX.. :uh:  WOW, JUST TOSS OUT INFO
> *


 :yes: :yes: 

Your best ground is keeping the ground 1-3 ft long and chassis grounding. So I would have a hard time believing competition vehicles run 15-20 ft. grounds up to the front battery, and only grounding them on the battery.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 22 2009, 08:02 AM~15432779
> *THANKS 79.  I MEAN I AM TRYIN G TO FIGURE OUT WHERE HIS INFO COMES FROM.  AND WHAT HE SAID ABOUT POSITIONING IS COMPLETELY ALL OVER THE PLACE, AND HMMM SWITCH TO A PORTED BOX IF YOU HAVE A SEALED BOX.. :uh:  WOW, JUST TOSS OUT INFO
> *


my info comes from first hand results. My box positioning is completely correct if you take the time to read it. I said if the back seat folds down you want sub and port facing forward with the woofer molded into the seat opening to isolate the front wave into the cabin and not in the trunk. But with the seats not folding forward in a 300 you will be better with sub and port facing the rear most likely, but how far from the rear of the trunk is something the listener will have to play with personally to see what sounds best to them...understand now?

And yes I said if you have a sealed box you should switch to ported. Why? Because ported enclosures 99% of the time give the listener much better results for what theyre looking for. A well designed properly built ported enclosure will have no sound quality difference to most peoples ears than a sealed box and is tuneable to your listening preferences. The only time Id go sealed is if there were major space limitations.

Once again before you question me with your "THEORIES" my knowledge comes from first hand experience and although they may be unorthodox to most people who know basic car audio...they do work very well and ca be the difference between having the loudest setup in the world to a mediocre setup.


> _Originally posted by 79 cutty_@Oct 22 2009, 09:09 AM~15433379
> *:yes:  :yes:
> 
> Your best ground is keeping the ground 1-3 ft long and chassis grounding. So I would have a hard time believing competition vehicles run 15-20 ft. grounds up to the front battery, and only grounding them on the battery.
> *


ok heres how it works.

ALL GROUNDS in your vehicle are grounded up to the negative post of the battery. When you ground your amp in the rear to the chassis, the current travels thru the steel chassis up to the front and thru whichever small wire you have going from your negative terminal to the frame. Chances are this wire is stock and usually 6 gauge wire or so. All the grounds in your car are wired this way and all share your frame/chassis as the ground.

With this said. If you run a whole new run of COPPER 1/0 wire all the way from your amp to the negative battery terminal this will be the best possible ground. Copper is a better conductor than your steel chassis which is being shared by all your other electrical components as a ground. And your weak link comes from the negative battery terminal lead to the frame up front. 

Running your own seperate ground is the best way..and is not dangerous at all. All elite level competition vehicles are done this way because it is a PROVEN better way to do it. Simple electrical knowledge is all you need to understand this. This isnt BS, I welcome you to ask on any car audio forum what the competitors there do for grounds.


Anyway heres a pic of the front batt in my old explorer. 5 runs of 1/0 positive and 5 runs of 1/0 negative from the front batt. To rear buss bars where I also had 15 more runs of 1/0 positive and 15 more runs of 1/0 negative from the rear battery going into the bar. Then my 8 runs of 1/0 positive and 8 runs of 1/0 negative coming off the bars to go to the amps themselves. Not all the wiring is shown in the bottom pic but you get the idea


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 08:07 PM~15439663
> *ok heres how it works.
> 
> ALL GROUNDS in your vehicle are grounded up to the negative post of the battery.  When you ground your amp in the rear to the chassis, the current travels thru the steel chassis up to the front and thru whichever small wire you have going from your negative terminal to the frame.  Chances are this wire is stock and usually 6 gauge wire or so.  All the grounds in your car are wired this way and all share your frame/chassis as the ground.
> ...


So if your battery is the "best possible ground" why even both chasis grounding? My point exactly...yes, you can run grounds from your front battery, but your battery is not the best/safest ground. IF that was the case and people who aren't as educated ran big ass systems but never bothered to ground to the chasis and only the front battery that little 6 ga wire would fry in a heartbeat!

And on a side note your install looks very clean....but just because that is how you do it, does not necessarily mean it is done right. Plenty of people on this site play the "know it all" role, and have been proven wrong before.


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

I've seen vehicles with hundreds of feet of wires going to the + and -. If I had the time I would run a ground to the yellow top under my hood. My chit is actually sitting in my garage, but I am a firm believer that you (especially with a high output alt and multi batts) need as much wire for the electricity to travel on as possible. 

I get people all the time telling me I don't need 4 batteries and a 200a (biggest Nate could do for a stock replacement) alt is too much for my MD3D at 1ohm. I say that is one less place for my system to fall short. Besides, that amp pulles some fucking juice.


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 11:07 PM~15439663
> *my info comes from first hand results.  My box positioning is completely correct if you take the time to read it.  I said if the back seat folds down you want sub and port facing forward with the woofer molded into the seat opening to isolate the front wave into the cabin and not in the trunk.  But with the seats not folding forward in a 300 you will be better with sub and port facing the rear most likely, but how far from the rear of the trunk is something the listener will have to play with personally to see what sounds best to them...understand now?
> 
> And yes I said if you have a sealed box you should switch to ported.  Why?  Because ported enclosures 99% of the time give the listener much better results for what theyre looking for.  A well designed properly built ported enclosure will have no sound quality difference to most peoples ears than a sealed box and is tuneable to your listening preferences.  The only time Id go sealed is if there were major space limitations.
> ...


Those bus bars look great man! You said you soldered all the connectors? Must have been one hot fucking day man!


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

:0 


















NICE HOLD DOWNS

A NICE PHOENIX GOLD TDD5 WOULD WORK ALOT BETTER


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 23 2009, 01:25 PM~15446778
> *:0
> 
> 
> ...


didnt have a whole lot of choice with the hold downs thats an 85 lb battery wedged in there so I wanted something strong that wasnt a conductor if it ever managed to touch one of the bars. This worked great.

And no a PG TDD5 definitely wouldnt work better than 1/4" pure copper bars lol. The only thing that would work better is if I used silver.

Plus the fact that as you can see I dont run fuses so that clearly wouldnt work for me.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by 79 cutty_@Oct 23 2009, 04:37 AM~15442935
> *So if your battery is the "best possible ground" why even both chasis grounding? My point exactly...yes, you can run grounds from your front battery, but your battery is not the best/safest ground. IF that was the case and people who aren't as educated ran big ass systems but never bothered to ground to the chasis and only the front battery that little 6 ga wire would fry in a heartbeat!
> 
> And on a side note your install looks very clean....but just because that is how you do it, does not necessarily mean it is done right. Plenty of people on this site play the "know it all" role, and have been proven wrong before.
> *


the negative terminal of the batt IS YOUR GROUND. All grounds on the car go back to it so what Im saying is...why not just go directly do it rather than using a common ground (the chassis or body). 

See what I mean? Its pretty simple once you realize all grounds end up at the negative terminal anyway.

In a bigass system you'd probably be running 1/0 anyway so you always want to run the same size ground as power wire...at the very least. Running a single 1/0 power and single 1/0 ground all the way to the front would not be dangerous at all.

This is how ALL competition vehicles are built. And theyre built that way for a reason...because its the best possible connection


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

what cutty is getting at, is that if you don't upgrade your ground between your alternator(s)/engine and the battery, the big 3 basically, that your factory ground between your battery and the chassis/engine would fry.....

i know in my truck i actually upgraded more than 3 ways to eliminate any possibility of engine noise, i have larger grounds from engine to chassis to battery, and a ground running from the alternator bracket right to the battery.....very solid connection all with 1/0 awg wiring


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 23 2009, 08:16 PM~15449520
> *didnt have a whole lot of choice with the hold downs thats an 85 lb battery wedged in there so I wanted something strong that wasnt a conductor if it ever managed to touch one of the bars.  This worked great.
> 
> And no a PG TDD5 definitely wouldnt work better than 1/4" pure copper bars lol.  The only thing that would work better is if I used silver.
> ...


NO THOSE ARE GROUNDS RIGHT???


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004+Oct 23 2009, 08:36 PM~15450688-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


huh?
is this another weak attempt at dissecting my setup for weak links that arent there.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 25 2009, 09:19 PM~15464024
> *but you see it wouldnt free because a ground straight back to the battery bypasses all of the stock wiring.  Unless your ground back to the battery was 12 gauge wire or something super small and inadequate you would have no problems.
> 
> huh?
> ...


i'm talkint about the ground between your alternator and your battery, system is only as good as its weakest link, and if your still using a factory ground between your battery and newly upgraded higher amperage alternator, that factory ground WILL hold you back


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 25 2009, 08:24 PM~15464107
> *i'm talkint about the ground between your alternator and your battery, system is only as good as its weakest link, and if your still using a factory ground between your battery and newly upgraded higher amperage alternator, that factory ground WILL hold you back
> *


ok yes i agree. big three should be upgraded even with a stock charging system to eliminate bottlenecks.

imo as far as the alt goes the charging lead to the positive post is more important than a ground lead simply because the casing is already grounded in one or two spots with the mounting bolts. But it never hurts to have too many grounds.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 25 2009, 10:06 PM~15464698
> *ok yes i agree.  big three should be upgraded even with a stock charging system to eliminate bottlenecks.
> 
> imo as far as the alt goes the charging lead to the positive post is more important than a ground lead simply because the casing is already grounded in one or two spots with the mounting bolts.  But it never hurts to have too many grounds.
> *


agreed, however its always that single wire you see coming from the negative post on the battery, which imo is just as important as the charging lead from the alternator. can only charge something as good as its ground


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 25 2009, 10:19 PM~15464024
> *but you see it wouldnt free because a ground straight back to the battery bypasses all of the stock wiring.  Unless your ground back to the battery was 12 gauge wire or something super small and inadequate you would have no problems.
> 
> huh?
> ...


WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? YOU OKAY MAN

I WAS ASKING IF THOSE WERE ALL GROUNDS, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A TDD5 AND IF THEY ARE ALL GROUNDS, THE TDD5, AND THE TDD10 HAS A SPOT THAT YOU CAN RUN ALL YOUR GROUNDS FROM. SO YOU DO NOT NEED A BUS BAR


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 26 2009, 04:07 AM~15467000
> *WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????  YOU OKAY MAN
> 
> I WAS ASKING IF THOSE WERE ALL GROUNDS, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A TDD5 AND IF THEY ARE ALL GROUNDS, THE TDD5, AND THE TDD10 HAS A SPOT THAT YOU CAN RUN ALL YOUR GROUNDS FROM.  SO YOU DO NOT NEED A BUS BAR
> *


all the blues are grounds to the rear bars, all the whites are power wires to the rear bars.

these pics were taken before any wiring under the hood was upgraded.


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 09:24 PM~15474072
> *all the blues are grounds to the rear bars, all the whites are power wires to the rear bars.
> 
> these pics were taken before any wiring under the hood was upgraded.
> *


I love the look of bus bars. Makes a novice ask what in the fuck is going on in there.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 08:24 PM~15474072
> *all the blues are grounds to the rear bars, all the whites are power wires to the rear bars.
> 
> these pics were taken before any wiring under the hood was upgraded.
> *


SO BASICALLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS THAT THE TDD5, OR 10 DOES THE SAME THING YOU DID, BUT ALSO INCORPORATES A TIME DELAY FOR TURN ON TURN OFF BUMPS


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 26 2009, 06:44 PM~15474346
> *SO BASICALLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS THAT THE TDD5, OR 10 DOES THE SAME THING YOU DID, BUT ALSO INCORPORATES A TIME DELAY FOR TURN ON TURN OFF BUMPS
> *


only problem is that mine has a much better connection being made of high quality copper and a ton of it. The metal alone in those bars cost me something like $75. And keep in mind they each had 10 runs per bar at one time too. Using any commercially available piece would have guaranteed a drop in my score due to a less efficient connection. My next bars will be silver plated copper! More conductivity, killer looks and they corrode less with the silver on the outside.

And as for my remote turn ons. Those were all run switched, using power directly from the rear bussbars, to a relay but also were wired thru the aux switch of my alarm so that i could turn the amps on/off using my FOB. This was to ensure in competition that if I ever had an issue with my head unit and amps going into protect i still could turn them off and back on again to reset them and bring them out of protect to hopefully still get a burp off before my 30 seconds was over. Lots of people do this by turning head unit on and off again but mine took over 30 seconds to boot up so that wasnt an option. 

however i never protected my amps in a competition anyway except the final round of world finals. Gotta love the fucked up shit that happens at finals


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 09:17 PM~15474812
> *only problem is that mine has a much better connection being made of high quality copper and a ton of it.  The metal alone in those bars cost me something like $75.  And keep in mind they each had 10 runs per bar at one time too.  Using any commercially available piece would have guaranteed a drop in my score due to a less efficient connection.  My next bars will be silver plated copper!  More conductivity, killer looks and they corrode less with the silver on the outside.
> 
> And as for my remote turn ons.  Those were all run switched, using power directly from the rear bussbars, to a relay but also were wired thru the aux switch of my alarm so that i could turn the amps on/off using my FOB.  This was to ensure in competition that if I ever had an issue with my head unit and amps going into protect i still could turn them off and back on again to reset them and bring them out of protect to hopefully still get a burp off before my 30 seconds was over.  Lots of people do this by turning head unit on and off again but mine took over 30 seconds to boot up so that wasnt an option.
> ...


YEAH THAT IS FOR BASS WARS, EVEN THE TDD5 OR 10 WOULD BE A MAJOR DEDUCATION IN POINTS


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 26 2009, 07:20 PM~15474875
> *YEAH THAT IS FOR BASS WARS, EVEN THE TDD5 OR 10 WOULD BE A MAJOR DEDUCATION IN POINTS
> *


i dunno what ur talkin about. Ive ever heard of bass wars. And points is something thats scored in SQ. Using a PG unit would probably gain me SQ points rather than my unfused masterpiece. The SQ guys cant stand my vehicles and all the unfused, unloomed wire lol

Particularly when my front stage still scores better sq points than theres.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 09:31 PM~15475046
> *i dunno what ur talkin about. Ive ever heard of bass wars.  And points is something thats scored in SQ.  Using a PG unit would probably gain me SQ points rather than my unfused masterpiece.  The SQ guys cant stand my vehicles and all the unfused, unloomed wire lol
> 
> Particularly when my front stage still scores better sq points than theres.
> *


AH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RULE BOOK IT CLEARLY STATES THAT YOU CAN NOT USE SWITCHING DEVICES, AND THAT IS WHAT THE PG TDD5 AND TDD10 DOES. ANY EQUIPMENT THAT DELAYS OR STOPS THE UNIT, AND AMPS FROM TURNING ON WTHIN A SPECIFIC TIME IS A POINT DEDUCTION. WELL IT USED TO BE, I MEAN I DO NOT KNOW ANYMORE. IF THOSE ARE THE PICTURES I SEEN OF THE SYSTEM THEY WOULD NOT EVEN ALLOW YOUR VEHICLE TO COMPETE WHEN I WAS COMPETING. NOT BEING AN ASS, BUT THEY WERE FUCKING PRICKS.


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

yes the guy sayin the neg terminal is the best ground.. he is right. i was told that by some old school bass heads over 20 years ago and i do it to this day,, and ive never i mean never had a problem,, i usually run 2/0-4/0 straight to battery. works everytime....and to answer the foward or rear facing box question,, i had this dilemma before, and i found that firing foward with the rear of box all the way to the back will yield best results for my ported boxes. to much bass lost when i faced it backto the bumper, and to much pressure and rattle in the trunk. as long as the box is all the way to the back of trunk u will not get cancelation of sound waves... if u have the box up against the seat with speace behind it when facing foward, u will have major cancelation and will not get 1/2 the output u will be capable of,,, does that makes sense.. well ive done it and it very good for a daily that wants clean hard bass. with no rattles in a trunk car.. by the way i have 2 12's at 5.5 cubes ported at 34hz


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by swangin68_@Nov 6 2009, 12:50 AM~15578593
> *yes the guy sayin the neg terminal is the best ground.. he is right. i was told that by some old school bass heads over 20 years ago and i do it to this day,, and ive never i mean never had a problem,, i usually run 2/0-4/0 straight to battery. works everytime....and to answer the foward or rear facing box question,, i had this dilemma before, and i found that firing foward with the rear of box all the way to the back will yield best results for my ported boxes. to much bass lost when i faced it backto the bumper, and to much pressure and rattle in the trunk. as long as the box is all the way to the back of trunk u will not get cancelation of sound waves... if u have the box up against the seat with speace behind it when facing foward, u will have major cancelation and will not get 1/2 the output u will be capable of,,, does that makes sense.. well ive done it and it very good for a daily that wants clean hard bass. with no rattles in a trunk car.. by the way i have 2 12's at 5.5 cubes ported at 34hz
> *


I WILL TRY TO FIND THE TUTORIAL ON THIS, THEY HAVE A DIAGRAM OF THE BASS WAVE, AND IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO PUT YOUR SUBS, UNDER THE PACKAGE TRAY FACING THE WOOFERS TOWARDS YOUR REAR BUMPER.


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

Yea I know its said that rear facing is better but I run mine opposite and put the box to the very back. And its louder and cleaner this way for me. I'm just sayin someone can try it if they have the option. I don't listen to people when they say it won't work when I do it and it works.


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## JOE(CAPRICE)68 (Jul 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 21 2009, 11:03 AM~15422847
> *if the option is available, which in your case it is, i would ground directly to the battery, alot of competition cars actually do this and run several runs of ground cable up front to the alternator/engine as well to increase the power the alternator is pushing to the rear battery/batteries.
> 
> so long as you still have a fuse on your power wire you are fine, and you might even notice a slight difference
> *


 no need to run ground to battery :uh: isn't this for daily?


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## 86 Limited (May 7, 2002)

dude what the fuck did u have in that explorer a concert hall? :roflmao:


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JOE(CAPRICE)68_@Nov 6 2009, 07:42 AM~15579999
> *no need to run ground to battery  :uh: isn't this for daily?
> *


Trusting your vehicle to have a clear enough path with the welds and seam sealer is a gamble. Unibodies are more seam sealer then welds, and unless your battery and amp are grounded directly to the same frame (again on a unibody there are few metal parts joined by metal) a run of cable to the battery's neg terminal is a great idea. If you are running a high output alt and multiple batts it is good practice.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by 79 cutty_@Oct 22 2009, 11:09 AM~15433379
> *:yes:  :yes:
> 
> Your best ground is keeping the ground 1-3 ft long and chassis grounding. So I would have a hard time believing competition vehicles run 15-20 ft. grounds up to the front battery, and only grounding them on the battery.
> *


you are very wrong....

www.termpro.com
www.stevemeadedesigns.com 

most people dont do it because they havent learned the ways or they are too cheap/lazy to run it

I have 3 + and - runs of 1/0 in 1 car and 10 in another


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## blacksmith (Feb 1, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 6 2009, 05:56 PM~15586790
> *you are very wrong....
> 
> www.termpro.com
> ...


i feel as though i've been lied to all my life. i didn't know you could have a ground as long as your power. all can be run side-by-side correct? together?


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by blacksmith_@Nov 6 2009, 10:15 PM~15586994
> *i feel as though i've been lied to all my life. i didn't know you could have a ground as long as your power. all can be run side-by-side correct? together?
> *


Sure, why not? Just keep the RCA's on the other side of the car.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JOE(CAPRICE)68+Nov 6 2009, 05:42 AM~15579999-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i've got my rca's right next to my power wire and no issues?


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

use welding cable or knukonceptz since they are the cheapest


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 7 2009, 07:08 AM~15590167
> *use welding cable or knukonceptz since they are the cheapest
> *


i do plan on going through knukonceptz actually, going to do at least 8 runs of 1/0 to the back of the wagon(4 runs pos, 4 runs neg), I plan on eventually running 4 15's with some massive amount of power behind them. but i'm gonna be holding that off like stated because i want to get my dual alt bracket situated first and decide on the amps/subs i'm going to run..


and to make this twist back to subject, i'm going to be running the 4 15's faced up, slot ports to the back(being this is a open air vehicle)....if it were a trunk setup, it would be both faced back within 8" of the rear wall of the trunk, this is why some people have had experiences with it being louder facing forward. irreguardless do whatever seems louder but 99% of the time its louder facing the subwoofers to the back granted you have the sound deadening/framework to support that pressure.


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 7 2009, 05:08 AM~15590167
> *use ((welding cable)) or knukonceptz since they are the cheapest
> *


thats my trick,, i get it for cheap and usually 2/0 - 4/0 wire,, big shit,,


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by swangin68_@Nov 7 2009, 03:20 PM~15592240
> *thats my trick,, i get it for cheap and usually 2/0 - 4/0 wire,, big shit,,
> *


I WILL ALWAYS RUN MY GROUNDS WELDED TO MY FRAME BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT LIKE THAT. BUT I TYPICALLY WELD A BOLT TO THE FRAME RAIL FOR A GOOD GROUND. I LIKE THE 2/0 GAUGE ON THE FRAME FROM FRONT TO BACK WITH A CONNECTION POINT GROMMET VIA THE CAR BODY.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 7 2009, 02:31 PM~15592298
> *I WILL ALWAYS RUN MY GROUNDS WELDED TO MY FRAME BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS DONE IT LIKE THAT.  BUT I TYPICALLY WELD A BOLT TO THE FRAME RAIL FOR A GOOD GROUND.  I LIKE THE 2/0 GAUGE ON THE FRAME FROM FRONT TO BACK WITH A CONNECTION POINT GROMMET VIA THE CAR BODY.
> *


if you have a solid frame like most larger suv's and older cars have, works great, but unibodies, forget it, sometimes your lucky to get a decent ground anywhere in the car.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Nov 7 2009, 03:45 PM~15592370
> *if you have a solid frame like most larger suv's and older cars  have, works great, but unibodies, forget it, sometimes your lucky to get a decent ground anywhere in the car.
> *


YEAH I AM 6'5" YOU AINT SEEING ME IN A UNI BODY.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by gangstaburban95+Nov 6 2009, 01:19 PM~15583761-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


particularly if your rear seats fold down....forward firing is nearly always louder. Because with a little work you can completely isolate the front wave coming from the box and into the cab, from any standing waves which would be entering the trunk itself. So in other words you wouldnt need any sound deadening or anything on the trunk because if done right your box will be totally sealed off from the trunk.

Heres a pic of what Im talking about. This is in an 06 grand prix daily driver which plays just under 152 db sealed on the dash on the termlab...with 2 10s and one amp and a 12 volt system. Burping at 39 hz aswell.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 7 2009, 09:46 PM~15594743
> *YEAH I AM 6'5"  YOU AINT SEEING ME IN A UNI BODY.
> *


you've never been in a newer impala? hell i'm 6'2" and i drive my brothers mustang which is very much a unibody. there are ALOT of vehicles on the market now that are unibodies, i believe the new magnums/chargers are uni's as well as the 300's. its actually hard to find a new car with a frame other then a few select models of cads, the crown vic, corvette, or the viper for that matter, the list keeps getting smaller as do the new cars, it almost discusts me to see some of these vehicles on the road today still using a great name on a tiny car, the impala/malibu of today is the same size if not smaller then the original cavaliers, malibu used to be a HUGE car, er rather an upgraded chevelle....


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 8 2009, 12:00 AM~15595141
> *Thats definitely not a rule anymore in iasca or usaci sq.  It couldnt be since so many newer vehicles run different modules for their head units and what not.
> 
> As far as not letting a vehicle compete because it was too ugly of an install.  I dont think this has EVER been a rule in any organization in SPL.  Most guys, myself included..really dont care how the car or the setup looks when its built to compete with.  Because thats not what its for.
> *


FOR SQ, YES IT IS, I JUST JOINED THE WEBSITE AND LOOKED OVER THE RULES, AND THE LAST PART OF WHAT YOU SAID, JUST REALLY EXPLAINS ALOT ON WHY YOUR SETUP LOOK LIKE THEY DO!!! I MEAN I HAVE HAD SOME CRAZY SETUPS, BUT YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING. BUT YOU SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON A DISTRIBUTION GROUND??? IF YOU ARE SUCH A PROFESSIONAL IN THIS, YOU WOULD FIGURE YOU WOULD ATTEMPT TO LEAD BY EXAMPLE. GUESS NOT


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 8 2009, 10:19 AM~15597157
> *FOR SQ, YES IT IS, I JUST JOINED THE WEBSITE AND LOOKED OVER THE RULES, AND THE LAST PART OF WHAT YOU SAID, JUST REALLY EXPLAINS ALOT ON WHY YOUR SETUP LOOK LIKE THEY DO!!!  I MEAN I HAVE HAD SOME CRAZY SETUPS, BUT YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING.  BUT YOU SPEND ALOT OF MONEY ON A DISTRIBUTION GROUND???    IF YOU ARE SUCH A PROFESSIONAL IN THIS, YOU WOULD FIGURE YOU WOULD ATTEMPT TO LEAD BY EXAMPLE.  GUESS NOT
> *


high end competition systems are built, tweaked, and torn down so many times its pointless and not cost effective to spend alot of money making things "pretty"....


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 8 2009, 01:24 PM~15598081
> *high end competition systems are built, tweaked, and torn down so many times its pointless and not cost effective to spend alot of money making things "pretty"....
> *


NO THEY ARE NOT, BUT IF YOU WALK IN WITH A CHECK BOOK, AND DO NOT KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT THEN IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE. SORRY STICKING SOME UNCOVERED SPEAKERS IN THE BACK OF A EXPLORER WITH SOME AMPS AND BATTERIES JUST THROWED IN THERE IS NOT ONLY DANGEROUS IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 8 2009, 04:38 PM~15599277
> *NO THEY ARE NOT, BUT IF YOU WALK IN WITH A CHECK BOOK, AND DO NOT KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT THEN IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE.  SORRY STICKING SOME UNCOVERED SPEAKERS IN THE BACK OF A EXPLORER WITH SOME AMPS AND BATTERIES JUST THROWED IN THERE IS NOT ONLY DANGEROUS IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY.
> *


dirty stop talking out of the side of your neck.... you are about to make a fool out of yourself yet again......


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 8 2009, 06:35 PM~15600019
> *dirty stop talking out of the side of your neck.... you are about to make a fool out of yourself yet again......
> *


HOW IS MAKING THAT STATEMENT, MAKING A FOOL OF MYSELF????


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 8 2009, 07:52 PM~15600586
> *HOW IS MAKING THAT STATEMENT, MAKING A FOOL OF MYSELF????
> *


you said competition systems arent rebuilt numerous times and that is wrong...
why would I spend a few days glassing and painting a box/amp rack just to tear it all down to try out something else in search of an extra 1/10th of a db....

wagonized is right, it doesnt matter what the setup looks like as long as it performs well in the eyes of most db draggers...


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 8 2009, 02:38 PM~15599277
> *NO THEY ARE NOT, BUT IF YOU WALK IN WITH A CHECK BOOK, AND DO NOT KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT THEN IT CAN BE EXPENSIVE.  SORRY STICKING SOME UNCOVERED SPEAKERS IN THE BACK OF A EXPLORER WITH SOME AMPS AND BATTERIES JUST THROWED IN THERE IS NOT ONLY DANGEROUS IT IS A WASTE OF MONEY.
> *


id like to see you build a vehicle within 3 db of what my explorer was in the same class.

opening my check book and buying all my gear..then throwing it in got me a 147.5 on 8000 watts on my first burp. 

Where do you think the other 10 db came from smart guy? My setup was actually one of the nicer more organized SPL setups out there for my class. Allbeit, its still ugly...ill never deny that but thats not what its designed for. Do you think funny cars and top fuel dragsters are beautiful looking cars? No of course not, theyre built for speed and functionality of the 1/4 mile and not looks. Just as my vehicle was designed to burp the loudest number possible for 3 seconds..not to look good. It however did score very well in sound quality with the woofers turned off as I did have focal k2p's up front in full deadened doors and I glassed my tweets into the A-pillars after spending a few hours adjusting the aiming and location of them.

So my challenge goes out to you...please build a loud vehicle and post pics of it then we'll see how nice your setup is after you have the enclosure in and out 100 times.

And by loud I mean

152 in street A 2 10s or 1 12 one 650 cube inch batt 1 amp
153 in street B 3 10s, 2 12s or 1 15 on one 800 cube batt 2 amps
154 in street C 6 10s, 4 12s, 2 15s or 1 18 and 2 800 cu inch batts 4amps


Work on that for a year or two and get back to me.


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## blacksmith (Feb 1, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 8 2009, 10:08 PM~15604006
> *id like to see you build a vehicle within 3 db of what my explorer was in the same class.
> 
> opening my check book and buying all my gear..then throwing it in got me a 147.5 on 8000 watts on my first burp.
> ...


 :0


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

DITTO


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

dirty ALL the batteries that people use in db drag are sealed...nothing to vent


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 9 2009, 11:36 AM~15606488
> *dirty ALL the batteries that people use in db drag are sealed...nothing to vent
> *


NO FOR SQ, IT DOES NOT MATTER. EVEN IF THE BATTERY IS A SEALED BATTERY, AND I MEAN LIKE A OPTIMA, IN SQ YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE IT VENTED TO THE OUTSIDE. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, AND I FOUGHT AND LOST THAT BATTLE.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 9 2009, 09:53 AM~15606642
> *NO FOR SQ, IT DOES NOT MATTER.  EVEN IF THE BATTERY IS A SEALED BATTERY, AND I MEAN LIKE A OPTIMA, IN SQ YOU STILL HAVE TO HAVE IT VENTED TO THE OUTSIDE.  IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE, AND I FOUGHT AND LOST THAT BATTLE.
> *


you're an idiot lol when was the last time you competed? 1989? lol you definitely DO NOT need to have your SEALED batts VENTED lol. 

Those batts dont gas at all unless something really goes wrong so why would they ever need to be vented.

Im starting to wonder if you've ever competed at all with these statements.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

NOT WORTH MY TME


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## 86 Limited (May 7, 2002)

so yea i turned my box around in the regal for shits and giggles to see how it sounds wit the driver facing the front of the car.... still dont compare as the driver firing towards the rear of the car. i noticed a big difference to tell u the truth. facing foward jus aint the way to go IMO..


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## CharkBait (Apr 9, 2009)

After 8000 watts you only burped 147.5? 

I'm only running 3000 and burped 148.6





> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 8 2009, 11:08 PM~15604006
> *
> 
> opening my check book and buying all my gear..then throwing it in got me a 147.5 on 8000 watts on my first burp.
> ...


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by gangstaburban95_@Nov 10 2009, 07:12 PM~15627192
> *so yea i turned my box around in the regal for shits and giggles to see how it sounds wit the driver facing the front of the car.... still dont compare as the driver firing towards the rear of the car. i noticed a big difference to tell u the truth. facing foward jus aint the way to go IMO..
> *


u have to make sure th ebox is all the way to the rear of trunk.... if its not it will sound like 1/2 the bass ur actually making... also do your seats fold down,,, although every car sounds different,, try it and use what works best...


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 10 2009, 07:33 PM~15626684
> *JUST FOR A BIT OF OWNAGE ON YOURSELF AND HOW YOU ARE HONESTLY UNKNOWLEDGEBLE ON RULES!!!!
> 
> IASCA LOGO ON DISPLAY
> ...


you think I just sweet a shop hey? Interesting, I was offered a job sweeping up and being the install bitch at a local shop which I 

lol if you ever actually competed at a competition you would see that judges use whats called "common sense" while judging a car. If you have a sealed dry cell battery that is securely mounted, and wiring is labelled, and fused within proper distance to the batt you will not lose points for a sealed batt not having venting to outside the car lol.

Rules are interpretted differently by different people, its the judges job to take the rule book itself and enforce it in a fair mannor but also take their own ideas and opinions and fairly enforce them aswell based on the rule book. I have NEVER seen any points ever taken off for a non-vented sealed cell battery...im sure itll be re-adjusted in the next rule book. And our local competitions have 3 sometimes 4 IASCA world finals judges at them at all times.

You're on here trying to give advice, quoting rule books etc etc...but what systems have you actually built? Im very curious of this.


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## 86 Limited (May 7, 2002)

> _Originally posted by swangin68_@Nov 11 2009, 01:23 AM~15630418
> *u have to make sure th ebox is all the way to the rear of trunk.... if its not it will sound like 1/2 the bass ur actually making... also do your seats fold down,,, although every car sounds different,, try it and use what works best...
> *


yeah my backseat is folded down half way. i noticed at lower levels the sound quality was still good and the spl was decent but when i turned it up almost all the way it just didnt compare how it was before bouncing against the back of the car then coming back into the cabin.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CharkBait_@Nov 11 2009, 02:02 AM~15629925
> *After 8000 watts you only burped 147.5?
> 
> I'm only running 3000 and burped 148.6
> *


sounds like you were on a loose ass audio control or a non calibrated TL... maybe even an outlaw setup


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

NOT WORTH MY TIME


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

dirty shut the fuck up.....

you constantly make a fool of yourself and its very fucking old


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

:uh:


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

:angry:


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## JOE(CAPRICE)68 (Jul 5, 2008)

lol this thead


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

lol i love it!


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## 86 Limited (May 7, 2002)

ive actually learned a lot from this thread haha


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