# Flat Black Issue



## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

I had a shop here in Dallas (a good friend of mine) paint up my truck with some flat black and Im having issues.... Some parts came out flawless while others had (atleast to me) issues. 










This is the grill surround looks flat but has a gray (faded white) spot on it and Need help from pro painters that have had expirience with this type of paint.










This is the tailgate and some parts look spotted as if the gun didnt shoot the clear properly (he used the flat clear coat) 


What is the next step I should take, I witnessed him mixing & shooting the paint so i know what he used. This is my daily as my street show truck and want to make sure it looks good.

He did tell me another painter he knows came thru and told him its common for that to happen and will go away with sun rays and time... lol I dont trust this comment. 

Help a brotha out on this......


Thanks for your replies and help in advance....




-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## Classic Customs (Oct 31, 2008)

well i cant paint. but i can tell you time is not going to fix that. lol


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Classic Customs_@Sep 16 2009, 11:00 AM~15097789
> *well i cant paint. but i can tell you time is not going to fix that. lol
> *


:rofl: :rofl:


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

Do you guys think that wetsanding the top layer of matte clear will clean up a bit???? 





-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

I've heard from plenty of painters that have tried using flattening agent in clear that it never comes out flawless.
Always ends up with some shiny streaks here and there.



The best thing to do is use a specialty paint like HOT ROD BLACK from SEM.

It's around 60 bucks a quart kit.
You would need at least 4 I would assume.


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

I know he used some PPG paint not sure what code. I also was looking at other rides with close up pics and noticed the shiny-ness to the flat/matte....










Right around the edges of the grill and bumper. It doesnt justify but helps me understand alil better that the gloss in the clear can shine up parts of the matte/flat paint. 


Anyone else have any other ideas on how to fix this issue...?



-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## cashmoneyspeed (Jun 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ZEUS DA GOD_@Sep 16 2009, 02:22 PM~15099099
> *I know he used some PPG paint not sure what code. I also was looking at other rides with close up pics and noticed the shiny-ness to the flat/matte....
> 
> 
> ...


I have no idea but i like that color :biggrin:


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## tRiCk oR tReAt 2 (Aug 7, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ZEUS DA GOD_@Sep 16 2009, 03:22 PM~15099099
> *I know he used some PPG paint not sure what code. I also was looking at other rides with close up pics and noticed the shiny-ness to the flat/matte....
> 
> 
> ...



Use a paint that is specifically made to be used for that finish.
I know SEM makes Hot Rod Black specifically for it.
There are other companies that do as well.


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

USING a flattener agent in the clear will always produce some shinny streaking you have to be perfect dead on everywhere for it to come out uniform. When I do flat black I use single stage with a flattener added to it, comes out flawless everytime! and durable as hell.... I say resand repaint and chalk it up to learning


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

Will do... Im gonna have to wait a lil to get the dough up for the paint supplies.... lol f-it everything in life is a learning experience....





-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## RATTOP (Jul 28, 2009)

he tried, lol thats what counts in the end, till you are ready to repaint i would use a scotchbrite pad and go all the same direction. it will look better imo.

i just painted my car also,so i know how shitty it can get, to top it off i was running to the auto store and got a ticket, grand total 185 bucks, so i had to add that into my paint job, it cameoutgood enough for me though.

good luck with yours, i almost went the same color, i got scared from doing it lol


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by RATTOP_@Sep 16 2009, 06:14 PM~15102149
> *he tried, lol thats what counts in the end, till you are ready to repaint i would use a scotchbrite pad and go all the same direction. it will look better imo.
> 
> i just painted my car also,so i know how shitty it can get, to top it off i was running to the auto store and got a ticket, grand total 185 bucks, so i had to add that into my paint job, it cameoutgood enough for me though.
> ...



What will it do.... any pics...?






-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

So do you wetsand and buff still to remove orange peel?


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by 801Rider_@Sep 17 2009, 05:59 AM~15106190
> *So do you wetsand and buff still to remove orange peel?
> *


From what I was told and read... No... Im not sure thou... I would like to know.... I heard buffin wont make it shine like gloss anyhow.... 





-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ZEUS DA GOD_@Sep 17 2009, 07:18 AM~15106284
> *From what I was told and read... No... Im not sure thou... I would like to know.... I heard buffin wont make it shine like gloss anyhow....
> -ZEUS DA GOD
> SIMPLY STUNNIN
> ...


Right, but wouldn't you want it to lay flat and get all of the fine scratches out from sanding?


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## ZEUS DA GOD (Jun 5, 2008)

> _Originally posted by 801Rider_@Sep 17 2009, 06:59 AM~15106485
> *Right, but wouldn't you want it to lay flat and get all of the fine scratches out from sanding?
> *



Worth a try.... :biggrin: 




-ZEUS DA GOD
SIMPLY STUNNIN
DALLAS TX


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

> _Originally posted by 801Rider_@Sep 17 2009, 08:59 AM~15106485
> *Right, but wouldn't you want it to lay flat and get all of the fine scratches out from sanding?
> *



I finish off prep sanding with 600-800 watersanding before spraying flats, that way there is not even light sand scratches after the paint dries and shrinks a bit.

I did a test panel with flat black and after it cured a week I buffed it without sanding and it made it glossy so... pretty much after your done painting it, it better be right!!


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by southGAcustoms_@Sep 17 2009, 08:46 AM~15106754
> *I finish off prep sanding with 600-800 watersanding before spraying flats, that way there is not even light sand scratches after the paint dries and shrinks a bit.
> 
> I did a test panel with flat black and after it cured a week I buffed it without sanding and it made it glossy so... pretty much after your done painting it, it better be right!!
> *


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## 58 Del-pala (Jan 21, 2008)

Just a suggestion. When I painted my 55 Delivery I used some Dupont Comercial Grade Imeron Satin Black. It comes flattened already. Some people would call it Semigloss, but it does come in Flat too. I painted my car for $110.00 for 1 gallon with 4 cans of activator. I sprayed 3 thick coats on my car with that 1 gallon. After 4 years I dont even have a single rock chip and the paint isnt faded either. Its good stuff. Here are some pics.


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## AuggieStyle (Sep 24, 2006)

bro did he use dx995 flattening agent or a matting agent? like su4985? if he added su4985 to a ppg clear you can buff and cut it to get all the orange peel out i just painted a bike flat black. laid down dmd1683 and dc3000 the clear mixed 4;5;1; so u can see it used a great deal of matting agent. a quart of matting agent is about $50 SO so painters scimp on the matting agent. if he did OR if he didnt shake the mixed clear well enough it will separate, and when sprayed it will leave shiny spots were the shiny spots soft?


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## DETACHED (Mar 13, 2006)

also i know this will sound stupid but john deer makes a flat black paint the name is "blitz black" its 80$ or so a gallon. good shit..


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## Kandy Drippa (Jun 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DETACHED_@Sep 19 2009, 01:29 AM~15125015
> *also i know this will sound stupid but john deer makes a flat black paint the name is "blitz black" its $35 or so a gallon. good shit..
> *


fixed


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## Bermuda Blue 62 (Jul 21, 2009)

> _Originally posted by DETACHED_@Sep 19 2009, 12:29 AM~15125015
> *also i know this will sound stupid but john deer makes a flat black paint the name is "blitz black" its 80$ or so a gallon. good shit..
> *


call me!


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## DETACHED (Mar 13, 2006)

dont got your # bro.. sent u a message


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## 58 Del-pala (Jan 21, 2008)

> _Originally posted by DETACHED_@Sep 19 2009, 03:29 AM~15125015
> *also i know this will sound stupid but john deer makes a flat black paint the name is "blitz black" its 80$ or so a gallon. good shit..
> *


IT IS CRAP !!!!

Remember its made for TRACTORS not cars. I work for John Deere and know what it is. It gets pourous after like 3 or 4 years of sun hitting it and lets moisture through to the metal.. 

Worst idea anyone ever spread on the internet.


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

I picked up some clear from PPG that is already meant for being flat, I'll get the info when I get home


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## curbserver78 (Nov 19, 2002)

i use ppg shopline jp377 black epoxy primer for flat black finishes. thats it. no clear. thats what everyone around here uses. havent had a problem with it yet- if you want to thin it out a little just use acetone-


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## treyimpala (Jul 3, 2007)

I have done a few with R-M paints ( BASF )
I also read that some of you guys mix it like regular clear. The clear I use on this stuff is LIMCO and is there low line of clear, but at the same time you just want a flat finsh not a high gloss, so I recommend this stuff.
Now here is the tricky part, you have to mix it on the scale. There is no 4-1-1 ratio on this, you mix by grams. Then right before I put it in my gun, I add about 15% reducer just for the flow out.
I have had good out comes with this.

Also do not use your regular cheap black primer because it will turn a chalky color and start to wash off slowly when you wash the car.

Good luck and hope this helps you out..

PEACE..............................................................................


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## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

:0


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

I'm trying PPG DCU 2060, Fix and Flat or some shit. I'm shooting the fenders with it right now


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## AuggieStyle (Sep 24, 2006)

DCU2060 FLEX AND FLAT IS AN ADDITIVE LIKE SU4985 IT IS MORE SUBTLE YOU HAVE TO ADD MORE TO GET EFFECT, IT IS MADE FOR FACTORY FINISH EGGSHELL MATTE GLOSS.
SOMEONE MENTIONED USING LIMCO CLEAR I USE 4100 AND I USE SU4985 IN IT 4985 IS A PPG PRODUCT ON THE SPECIALTY LINE.....4985 IS A UNIVERSAL MATTING AGENT..IT IS MIXED ON OR OFF A SCALE EVEN IF IT IS MIXED BY GRAMS YOU STILL HAVE A GRAND TOTAL AND IS DIVIDED IN PARTS SO YOU DONT NESSESARILY NEED A SCALE IF IT IS MIXED 4:5:1 IT IS 40%50%10% SO A PINT OF PAINT IS 500GRAMS THEN IT WOULD MIX 200GRAMS, 250GRAMS, AND 50GRAMS OR IF YOU MIX IN A CUP AND YOU MIX 20 OUNCES IT WOULD MIX 8OUNCES 10OUNCES 2OUNCES IF THIS DOESNT MAKE SENSE.......YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE PAINT BOOTH. OR ASK FOR HELP


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## 801Rider (Jun 9, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AuggieStyle_@Sep 25 2009, 10:30 PM~15189699
> *DCU2060 FLEX AND FLAT IS AN ADDITIVE LIKE SU4985 IT IS MORE SUBTLE YOU HAVE TO ADD MORE TO GET EFFECT, IT IS MADE FOR FACTORY FINISH EGGSHELL MATTE GLOSS.
> SOMEONE MENTIONED USING LIMCO CLEAR I USE 4100 AND I USE SU4985 IN IT 4985 IS A PPG PRODUCT ON THE SPECIALTY LINE.....4985 IS A UNIVERSAL MATTING AGENT..IT IS MIXED ON OR OFF A SCALE EVEN IF IT IS MIXED BY GRAMS YOU STILL HAVE A GRAND TOTAL AND IS DIVIDED IN PARTS SO YOU DONT NESSESARILY NEED A SCALE IF IT IS MIXED 4:5:1 IT IS 40%50%10% SO A PINT OF PAINT IS 500GRAMS THEN IT WOULD MIX 200GRAMS, 250GRAMS,  AND 50GRAMS OR IF YOU MIX IN A CUP AND YOU MIX 20 OUNCES IT WOULD MIX 8OUNCES 10OUNCES 2OUNCES IF THIS DOESNT MAKE SENSE.......YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE PAINT BOOTH. OR ASK FOR HELP
> *


LOL, that's it, fix and flat :twak: :biggrin:


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## tito5050 (Jul 28, 2007)

THE BEST!!!


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## Catalyzed (Apr 17, 2009)

> _Originally posted by 58 Del-pala_@Sep 21 2009, 10:39 AM~15140115
> *IT IS CRAP !!!!
> 
> Remember its made for TRACTORS not cars. I work for John Deere and know what it is. It gets pourous after like 3 or 4 years of sun hitting it and lets moisture through to the metal..
> ...


Good info to know!


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## FlipFlopBox (Jun 4, 2003)

i sprayed an old buick flat black came out nice but some spots you could see somewhat of striping, the guy also brought his own paint so i only got to put 2 coats i think the third coat would have killed the minor striping there was cuz the first coat looked bad then it went away mostly the second coat, but it was sherwinn williams products and i just added a flattening agent to the single stage paint no clear on it


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## FlipFlopBox (Jun 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by curbserver78_@Sep 22 2009, 11:18 AM~15152283
> *i use ppg shopline jp377 black epoxy primer for flat black finishes. thats it. no clear. thats what everyone around here uses. havent had a problem with it yet- if you want to thin it out a little just use acetone-
> *


sounds smart and cheap! would work i guess


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## curbserver78 (Nov 19, 2002)

> _Originally posted by FlipFlopBox_@Sep 26 2009, 08:17 PM~15195604
> *sounds smart and cheap! would work i guess
> *


heres what the finish looks like- with ppg shopline epoxy primer. i did the scallops in kandy with flake. wont fade or rinse off. not porous.


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