# Split belly



## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm still not sure about splitting the belly, does anyone really know what the advantage is? 

People say your crossmember will cave in, even reinforced.. I dont buy that because I've got 1/4" on 4 sides with gussets,square tubing down the center, and a v6 motor brigding the 2 sides together (will my motor cave in too?). What other advantage does spilitting the belly have that couldnt be corrected at the pockets or a-arms?

I know the geometry of a GM front suspension wouldnt coincidentaly be ideal for hoppin, but seems like there would be more worth-while mods that would yield better results than changing the angle of the pocket a tad while through my monts out of line... I'd rather cut out the pocket, raise it up and make it any angle i wanted if that was the issue...

So can someone shed some light??


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## 6Deuced (Mar 3, 2003)

i dont know much, but i do know it helps keep your crossmember from hitting when hopping as it basically raises it up somewhat.


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I think thats just a myth more than anything, the first thing i did to keep from hitting was cut the front 'scrape guard' off.


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## EMPIRE CUSTOMS (May 29, 2005)

*shrink it, dont split it :biggrin: *


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## THEBOXX (Oct 10, 2007)

I DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND ETHER...IM IN THE PROCESS OF DOING MY FRAME AND I NEVER UNDERSTOOD BY "SHRINKING IT"OR"SPLITTING IT"


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## KINGFISH_CUSTOMS (Oct 8, 2006)

splitting the belly changes the position of angle on the upper A arms as well as curving the belly in and upside down U section which will help have the cross member not bottom out.. although splittin the belly isnt new its rather an older technique people would do, but theres also other ways of achieving the crossmember not bottoming out .


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

Another Split Belly Topic. :biggrin: I know nothing. :ugh:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 19 2007, 09:36 AM~9482931
> *Another Split Belly Topic.  :biggrin:  I know nothing.  :ugh:
> *


you know how to casually cover them in pictures


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

changes coil position.....


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GRINGO_CONNECT_@Dec 19 2007, 09:46 AM~9482962
> *you know how to casually cover them in pictures
> *


 :0 :dunno:


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## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 19 2007, 08:36 AM~9482931
> *Another Split Belly Topic.  :biggrin:  I know nothing.  :ugh:
> *


X2 only I'm not using sarcasm.


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 19 2007, 11:20 AM~9483301
> *:0  :dunno:
> *


com'n and share them pics a a brief description on the best way to do them,or send them to me and ill keep it secret


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## Unlimited Hustle (Jul 8, 2002)

All I'm going to say on this topic 

1. NO PICTURES

2. ONCE THE MOTOR CAVE'S IN AND YOUR OIL PAN IS HITTING THE X MEMBER AND YOUR ARMS ARE HITTING YOUR EXHUST MANIFOLDS AND YOU NOTICE YOUR ARMS ARE BUTTERFLY'D IN AGAIN YOU SHRINK THE BELLY TO CORRECT THIS PROBLEM.

3. YOU CAN DO THE SHRINK WHEN YOU FIRST BUILD THE CAR TO HELP AVOID THIS.

4. YOU DONT REALLY NEED TO SHRINK IT IF YOU REINFORCE YOUR FRAME PROPERLY.

5. YOUR COIL POSTION IS ONLY CHANGED BECAUSE EVERYTHING HOLDING THE COIL IS MOVED- NO BENIFET.

6. YOUR X MEMBER WILL STILL BOTTOM OUT WHILE HOPPING... YOU CAN SHRINK IT , SPLIT IT AND YOU ARE STILL GOING TO REINFORCE THE BOTTOM OF IT WITH 1/4 OR 3/8 PLATE SO THAT CHANGE'S NOTHING.

7. AGAIN NO PICTURES


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Unlimited Hustle_@Dec 19 2007, 12:29 PM~9483649
> *
> 6. YOUR X MEMBER WILL STILL BOTTOM OUT WHILE HOPPING... YOU CAN SHRINK IT , SPLIT IT AND YOU ARE STILL GOING TO REINFORCE THE BOTTOM OF IT WITH 1/4 OR 3/8 PLATE SO THAT CHANGE'S NOTHING.
> *



I totally disagree on this one. The lower a-arms are going to hit the frame before the cross member hits the ground. So in other words you would have to bend or break the lowers first. But this is only if the split is done correctly. Besides who needs 1/4" or 3/8" on the bottom of the cross member? There is a couple of small things that can be done to make sure it isn't gonna hit, but a correct split/ shrink will work.


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## Unlimited Hustle (Jul 8, 2002)

1/4 AND 3/8'S WAS STATED FOR THE GUYS THAT WANT A BEEFY FRAME , I MYSELF WILL USE 1/8" JUST TO COVER IT UP TO LOOK GOOD


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I think unlimited hustle summed it all up for me unless your trying to keep #5 a secret,lol. 
I really dont think it helps bottoming out either, at least on my blazer frame I know it would make no difference,eliminating the scrape plate on the front made all the difference i needed (since the back end is raised the front edge is what hits...


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

dont slip on tim ...he got some secrets he aint sharing......but im not knockin Unlimited Hustle


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

lol, maybe so, i know I've got alot out of his posts, but a blazer frame is alot different than a typical g body frame so im pretty sure it dont apply to me either way.


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 19 2007, 09:36 PM~9487557
> *lol, maybe so, i know I've got alot out of his posts, but a blazer frame is alot different than a typical g body frame so im pretty sure it dont apply to me either way.
> *


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 19 2007, 04:15 PM~9485796
> *I think unlimited hustle summed it all up for me unless your trying to keep #5 a secret,lol.
> I really dont think it helps bottoming out either, at least on my blazer frame I know it would make no difference,eliminating the scrape plate on the front made all the difference i needed (since the back end is raised the front edge is what hits...
> *


If it is done right it will not ever hit the crossmember. If you don't do it you will still hit it even in a Blazer. If you don't even know the benefits of it you shouldn't try to do it. Do like everyone else that knows how to do it, try it and see what it does. :biggrin:


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 19 2007, 09:22 PM~9487953
> *If it is done right it will not ever hit the crossmember. If you don't do it you will still hit it even in a Blazer. If you don't even know the benefits of it you shouldn't try to do it.  Do like everyone else that knows how to do it, try it and see what it does. :biggrin:
> *


I agree. I deicided to split mine to see for myself. It was the only way to get the real answer anyway. I'm still building my frame but I did put the front suspension back together without any coils and it makes a huge differance as to how close the crossmember comes to the ground. I have a couple of pics in my build thread, not real detailed, just some teasers. 

Andrew can you post a couple pics of your frame? I can't say I know exactly how the Blazer frames are set up.


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## THEBOXX (Oct 10, 2007)

MAN I STILL DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND.... IM BUILDIN MY FIRST HOPPER AND IM TRYIN TO SEE WHAT I NEED TO DO WITH MY FRAME AND THIS IS THE ONLY THING STOPPIN ME...


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## Chaotic Lows (Dec 25, 2005)

so if i understood this right splittin the belly is somethin you do to the hoppers but not a juiced daily or a show car right ?


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## JuicedS10 (Mar 11, 2002)

i tried it for myself too on my linc. just pulled the motor and left the frame on the car. i couldnt believe how much higher it went up just by spreading it a little. 
watch some truucha videos look at there crossmembers and how there springs line up.


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## trespatines (Jan 22, 2006)

i have done it even with the motor on and with the frame on the car,it do help :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## OVERTIME (Nov 28, 2005)

Hundreds of cars wouldnt have a split if it didnt have a benefit from it.


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

yeah i mean i know it somewhat raises the crossmember in relation to the pockets, but isnt that just making the front end sit higher too? I'd have to take off a slight amount of coil to have it sit back where it did, thats like putting lift spindles on pretty much. Or am I missing something that magically raises the x-member up without affectionately lowering the pockets.

4pump84cutty, you would be right, but thats like saying we should all be dressin like MC hammer, 10 years from now we'll see what people think about what the 'gurus' are doing today. In any field they look back and laugh at the way things used to be done... the lowrider hydraulic industy is relatively small and technologically un-developed.


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Yogi+Dec 20 2007, 10:18 AM~9491462-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will not lay frame, but thats the point. I thought this was regaurding a hopper. If you want the truck to lay out but still hop good you are going to have to be very good on the switch and you will still bottom out if you get enough inches from time to time. 

I see you post a lot about not being a sheep and doing things differently. I'm all in favor of that but if thats what you really want to do then do it without asking anyones advise. Thats the only way to really be an inovater. The only way to advance beyond common mods such as a split belly is to go all out and design and build your own frame from scratch.


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 19 2007, 10:41 AM~9483717
> *I totally disagree on this one.  The lower a-arms are going to hit the frame before the cross member hits the ground.  So in other words you would have to bend or break the lowers first.  But this is only if the split is done correctly.  Besides who needs 1/4" or 3/8" on the bottom of the cross member?  There is a couple of small things that can be done to make sure it isn't gonna hit, but a correct split/ shrink will work.
> *


On my show hopper I have a 1.5 shrunk belly and I smash the fuck out the belly with some 205's...So it really depends on the car and style of suspension. When it done normal 3/4'' shrink on the belly The movement up on the bolt(lower) centers is minuimal,Which will raise the center of the belly but not the outter area where the arms are mounted.. The main reason I feel , is for cylinder alignment and leaning out off the frame rail for more extension. I've seen other do the same just by relocating the ears out 1/2''...
Every car (except) Impala frames we do a shrink on, when we do our frames.


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Dec 21 2007, 04:30 AM~9499323
> *On my show hopper I have a 1.5 shrunk belly and I smash the fuck out the belly with some 205's...So it really depends on the car and style of suspension. When it done normal 3/4'' shrink on the belly The movement up on the bolt(lower) centers is minuimal,Which will raise the center of the belly but not the outter area where the arms are mounted.. The main reason I feel , is for cylinder alignment and leaning out off the frame rail for more extension. I've seen other do the same just by relocating the ears out 1/2''...
> Every car (except) Impala frames we do a shrink on, when we do our frames.
> *



I agree that this will not work on every car, a glasshouse for example needs a lot more than a split/shrink to make it not bottom out. But talking about a blazer there shouldn't be any problems with the crossmember hitting if it is split.


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

I WAS MESSING AROUND ON PAINT,IS THIS ABOUT RIGHT ?
i know the plating can be tied into the lower a-arm mounts but this was real basic


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## zooter86 (Dec 4, 2004)

TTT, im interested in how/why on a g body


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## SKEETER (Oct 12, 2003)

> _Originally posted by zooter86_@Dec 21 2007, 11:49 AM~9500803
> *TTT, im interested in how/why on a g body
> *


READ THE THREAD


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## 6Deuced (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by GRINGO_CONNECT_@Dec 21 2007, 07:46 AM~9500418
> *I WAS MESSING AROUND ON PAINT,IS THIS ABOUT RIGHT ?
> i know the plating can be tied into the lower a-arm mounts but this was real basic
> 
> ...


i believe they would call that a shrink, where as a split the cut would be on top, and the gap would be opened rather closed up????


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

Yep thats a shrink. I did the split, with the cut at the top.


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

so the best way to do it ,is shrink it like in the illustration?


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

I will give one hint.................................................Shrink it!!!!


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 21 2007, 06:35 PM~9503286
> *I will give one hint.................................................Shrink it!!!!
> *


 :0


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

and 3/4 is average shrink right?


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

OutHopU, I'm not trying to lay it out, but I'm not one of those clowns running a full stack of 5tons... I like some travel, most comp hoppers I see are getting an inch of cylinder stroke, I dont feel thats the way to go for my street smasher and it doesnt fit my switching style.


I'm think its just the way the angle of the pocket works better with the angle of the a-arm swing and lower cup, kinda like Ron was saying.Its also funny how he mentioned moving ears 1/2" when people were bitching at me for even bringing it up,lol. (I've got some more ideas on thats subject but I'll save those for later) But I have high lockup after taking the stock mounts outs (thats had the integrated 'stops'

Either way, i got both my front and back plates on the crossmember before i could make up my mind, so maybe next time I will try it out.

maybe I'll also rotate the a-arm mounting rearwards so when the back end is locked up with 32" tellys, the car is actually pushing straight up instead of a 45 degree angle forward,lol

Timdog, do you know anyone who hops a 70s fullsize anymore? If so send me some pics! my 74 laid frame n would catch air pretty good with 3 tons. (a smooth 6" but still good for a scraper on 36Vs)


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 21 2007, 09:15 PM~9504720
> *OutHopU, I'm not trying to lay it out, but I'm not one of those clowns running a full stack of 5tons... I like some travel, most comp hoppers I see are getting an inch of cylinder stroke, I dont feel thats the way to go for my street smasher and it doesnt fit my switching style.
> I'm think its just the way the angle of the pocket works better with the angle of the a-arm swing and lower cup, kinda like Ron was saying.Its also funny how he mentioned moving ears 1/2" when people were bitching at me for even bringing it up,lol. (I've got some more ideas on thats subject but I'll save those for later) But I have high lockup after taking the stock mounts outs (thats had the integrated 'stops'
> 
> ...


I hear you on the full stack thing. As far as moving thr ears out though you need to make sure the ball joint won't bind at full compresion. Moving them out make the ball joint angle worst on compression but will help at lockup.


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## 6Deuced (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 21 2007, 06:15 PM~9504720
> *OutHopU, I'm not trying to lay it out, but I'm not one of those clowns running a full stack of 5tons... I like some travel, most comp hoppers I see are getting an inch of cylinder stroke, I dont feel thats the way to go for my street smasher and it doesnt fit my switching style.
> I'm think its just the way the angle of the pocket works better with the angle of the a-arm swing and lower cup, kinda like Ron was saying.Its also funny how he mentioned moving ears 1/2" when people were bitching at me for even bringing it up,lol. (I've got some more ideas on thats subject but I'll save those for later) But I have high lockup after taking the stock mounts outs (thats had the integrated 'stops'
> 
> ...


i highly doubt that


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## low4life86 (Jul 6, 2005)

when you split or shrink a belly what happens with the frame rails? wont you have to twist them a lil bit?


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## 6Deuced (Mar 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by low4life86_@Dec 21 2007, 07:13 PM~9505100
> *when you split or shrink a belly what happens with the frame rails? wont you have to twist them a lil bit?
> *


of course, they will twist in a bit.


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## low4life86 (Jul 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by 6Deuced_@Dec 21 2007, 07:57 PM~9505355
> *of course, they will twist in a bit.
> *


yes, but is it hard to twist em?


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

bumper fitproblems and front clip fit probs?


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## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver_@Dec 21 2007, 11:01 PM~9505384
> *bumper fitproblems and front clip fit probs?
> *



:yes:


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by NaptownSwangin_@Dec 22 2007, 12:09 AM~9505416
> *:yes:
> *


 :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: 

Sorry homie I know you have your problems with it.


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## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 21 2007, 11:14 PM~9505460
> *:roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:
> 
> Sorry homie I know you have your problems with it.
> *



All good, I've figured it out now (with your help). As rookie it really fucked my head up for a while. 

I'll know next time.


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver+Dec 21 2007, 11:01 PM~9505384-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not if you do it right. Mine bolted up no problems. Its all in the prep work.


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GRINGO_CONNECT_@Dec 21 2007, 04:45 PM~9503355
> *and 3/4 is average shrink right?
> *


If you do it 3/4 you will move the top like 3 inches on each side. Do not do it that much. :biggrin:


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 21 2007, 09:32 PM~9505595
> *Not if you do it right. Mine bolted up no problems. Its all in the prep work.
> *


I DONT SEE HOW , SPLIITING THE BELLY IS GOINT TO THROW OFF THE ALIGNMENT OF ALL THE FRONT BODY PANELS. the bumper mounts would be twisted correct? along with th usually flat radiator support mounts.are the advantages that great to warrant doing that to the frame?


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## THEBOXX (Oct 10, 2007)

HOW HARD IS IT TO BRING THE BOTTOM OF THE CUT TOGETHER TO WELD IT???


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 22 2007, 12:41 AM~9505658
> *If you do it 3/4 you will move the top like 3 inches on each side. Do not do it that much. :biggrin:
> *


so how much should i do? im doing my first this weekend :biggrin:


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver_@Dec 21 2007, 11:44 PM~9505690
> *I DONT SEE HOW , SPLIITING THE BELLY IS GOINT TO THROW OFF THE ALIGNMENT OF ALL THE FRONT BODY PANELS. the bumper mounts would be twisted correct? along with th usually flat radiator support mounts.are the advantages that great to warrant doing that to the frame?
> *


This doesn't happen if you do it correctly.


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 22 2007, 11:34 AM~9508514
> *This doesn't happen if you do it correctly.
> *


DISCUSS, I DONT UNDERSTAND , you are moving the frame rails, no?


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

lol he says if you do it correctly like either he doesnt want to give any more info or he got lucky,lol. I figured I'd have to shave body/radiator mounts after a split/shrink, or weld them on crooked.

I thought about moving my mounts out, but moving the mounts outward on the top in relation to the bottom mounts will just make the camber change even more drastic from top to bottom. The cats meow would be to have your upper mounts above the lower mounts and extended the uppers as needed, then after messing with spindles you could get it to where your camber would be correct through the whole motion.

And about comp cars with an inch of cylinder movement, lets just say on a GM a-arm front,for every inch the car lifts, the cylinder is only pushing about half an inch. Dont ask me why anyone uses 8 or even 6" cylinders...


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 22 2007, 12:41 AM~9505658
> *If you do it 3/4 you will move the top like 3 inches on each side. Do not do it that much. :biggrin:
> *



Whoops!! :biggrin:


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 22 2007, 01:28 PM~9508765
> *lol he says if you do it correctly like either he doesnt want to give any more info or he got lucky,lol. I figured I'd have to shave body/radiator mounts after a split/shrink, or weld them on crooked.
> 
> I thought about moving my mounts out, but moving the mounts outward on the top in relation to the bottom mounts will just make the camber change even more drastic from top to bottom. The cats meow would be to have your upper mounts above the lower mounts and extended the uppers as needed, then after messing with spindles you could get it to where your camber would be correct through the whole motion.
> ...


b/c in order to get max output of your pump head, your cylinder needs to move about 5 1/2 inches out.. thats wear the hieght of the coil comes in.. to tall of a coil will bind up, to short of a coil and you'll over lock your cylinder...


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver+Dec 22 2007, 01:45 PM~9508582-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your getting closer. The problem with the pivot point of the uppers moved back inline with the lowers is the frame will be in the way for upper A arm travel. I've put a lot of thought into the whole geometry of the front suspension and it boils down to building your own complete front crossmember to achieve more tolerable camber changes. I've had many other "brainstorms" I had to shoot down for one reason or another.

The reason I don't just give away all the answers is due to the fact that it has taken me 15 years of welding and fab work to learn what I have. More than 90% of what I know was learned the hard way long before this forum ever existed. I have learned a few good tricks on hear and I also try to contribute some as well, a search of my posts and topic will show that, but most the time you just have to get dirty and build. With that comes a loss of time and money, not to mention frustration.


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 22 2007, 02:07 PM~9508949
> *Yes and no.
> Your getting closer. The problem with the pivot point of the uppers moved back inline with the lowers is the frame will be in the way for upper A arm travel. I've put a lot of thought into the whole geometry of the front suspension and it boils down to building your own complete front crossmember to achieve more tolerable camber changes. I've had many other "brainstorms" I had to shoot down for one reason or another.
> 
> ...


Everyone wants you to tell them how to do it but not put any work into it themselves. :biggrin: I've been spliting frames for over 6 years and have done almost all of them different. :0


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 22 2007, 03:12 PM~9508984
> *Everyone wants you to tell them how to do it but not put any work into it themselves. :biggrin:  I've been spliting frames for over 6 years and have done almost all of them different. :0
> *


It's like that for me with everything. No sooner did I finish my first one I was already thinking of how I would do it differently the next time.


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 22 2007, 02:19 PM~9509020
> *It's like that for me with everything. No sooner did I finish my first one I was already thinking of how I would do it differently the next time.
> *


It can always be better. :biggrin:


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

Exactly.


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## TWEEDY (Apr 21, 2005)

1/2 inch is how much i cut mine. No more than that


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

I did 1.5"...............GHETTO TUCK. :biggrin:



















Don't cus my Jamie I am just joking. :cheesy: Every one I have done has been about 3/4" except for my 69 and it was a 1/2".


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## Jolleyrancher (Sep 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Unlimited Hustle_@Dec 19 2007, 08:29 AM~9483649
> *All I'm going to say on this topic
> 
> 1. NO PICTURES
> ...


SOUNDS LIKE A BIG HASSLE :thumbsdown:


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I've love to just get a frame i could try all kinds of tricks on. See i dont know how it feels to have people ask the best secrets, cuz i dont have any experience! I'm greatful for what I get, cuz I'm a single father of 2 kids i dont have alot of time i wanna spend on trial and error and testing,lol. 

Lowridings alot different from other auto fields, where u just buy a optimized section of a frame for your car and weld it it place of the stock section. In most ways I'm glad lowriding isnt like that though,but after so many decades you figured there would be alot more secrets out in the open, but its more like the backyard guy and small shops puttin in all the real work thats changing things up.


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 23 2007, 05:22 PM~9515651
> *I've love to just get a frame i could try all kinds of tricks on. See i dont know how it feels to have people ask the best secrets, cuz i dont have any experience! I'm greatful for what I get, cuz I'm a single father of 2 kids i dont have alot of time i wanna spend on trial and error and testing,lol.
> 
> Lowridings alot different from other auto fields, where u just buy a optimized section of a frame for your car and weld it it place of the stock section. In most ways I'm glad lowriding isnt like that though,but after so many decades you figured there would be alot more secrets out in the open, but its more like the backyard guy and small shops puttin in all the real work thats changing things up.
> *


I'm in the same boat. It's hard to make enough money and time to be a good Dad and a good builder. Thats why it takes me so long to finish my projects.

The fact that it takes the time and effort to build a lowrider is what makes it worth while.


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

thats the same reason i havent got any one of the 3 projects on my hands done yet, i pulled out the closest one to being finished to be a kid-hauler, now it needs new interior......again.....


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

Thats why I decided to condense 2 projects into one. Junked my wagon and I'm using the frame that I had real close to finished from that on my Bonneville. Now I have room to work and hopefully enough time and money to finish it.


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

stuck my GN on my concrete pad, i want to finish it bad, took my hearse to storage and started driving my coupe......


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

yep, got 11 cars i think? and every one of them has work started and not finished,lol. And I cant sell anything, I know I'll regret it, just like my dad always says he does. But he always tells me "Let this be a fun project, dont work yourself towards frustration"


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## Unity_Jon (Oct 9, 2002)

it'd be pretty cool to chop the spring cups out the rails completely and replace with some fat arsed pipe that you could slash cut the top and bottom then cap off to hold the coils perfectly verticle and why you're at it slice the bottom inch or two off the crossmember and weld in a new bottom section.

ideal world and all that...


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

i was actually just sitting here thinking about something like that before i weld my plates over the pockets... couldnt go too far though or it'd problly bind up? but u would be able to gain some coil and choose any angle you wanted...


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## 94Fleetwoodswangin (Jul 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 22 2007, 03:07 PM~9508949
> *Yes and no.
> Your getting closer. The problem with the pivot point of the uppers moved back inline with the lowers is the frame will be in the way for upper A arm travel. I've put a lot of thought into the whole geometry of the front suspension and it boils down to building your own complete front crossmember to achieve more tolerable camber changes. I've had many other "brainstorms" I had to shoot down for one reason or another.
> 
> The reason I don't just give away all the answers is due to the fact that it has taken me 15 years of welding and fab work to learn what I have. More than 90% of what I know was learned the hard way long before this forum ever existed. I have learned a few good tricks on hear and I also try to contribute some as well, a search of my posts and topic will show that, but most the time you just have to get dirty and build. With that comes a loss of time and money, not to mention frustration.*



I like that answer


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

SOME OF US DONT HAVE 15 YEARS TO WAIT , AND THOUSANDS TO SPEND ON SPECULATION, WE LIKE WHAT IS PROVEN TO WORK.....


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## jevonniespapi (Aug 4, 2004)

and no pics huh?


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver+Dec 25 2007, 08:37 PM~9530054-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a couple of pics in my build. Check my link. It's not a step by step but it's something.


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver_@Dec 25 2007, 07:37 PM~9530054
> *SOME OF US DONT HAVE 15 YEARS TO WAIT , AND THOUSANDS TO SPEND ON SPECULATION, WE LIKE WHAT IS PROVEN TO WORK.....
> *


The younger generation is lazy. :biggrin:


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## OVERTIME (Nov 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 26 2007, 09:59 PM~9538276
> *The younger generation is lazy. :biggrin:
> *


That is very very true thats why i have my 5 year old sun turning wrenches with me sometimes to try and teach him how to do it himself.


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## big pimpin (Nov 22, 2001)

I love reading these topics. :biggrin:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by big pimpin_@Dec 27 2007, 02:22 PM~9541960
> *I love reading these topics.  :biggrin:
> *


x2


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by big pimpin_@Dec 27 2007, 02:22 PM~9541960
> *I love reading these topics.  :biggrin:
> *



Me too. Here are some pics for all the whiners. There are 2 frames in acouple of the pics with split bellies and other mods. :cheesy:


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## 187_Regal (Jan 24, 2003)

tim said he posted pics of frames with split bellys....looks like a couple of decorative things on the walls of his shop.....lol


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## yetti (May 4, 2002)

Here's 2 that are split also. :biggrin:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 27 2007, 10:13 PM~9545481
> *Me too.  Here are some pics for all the whiners.  There are 2 frames in acouple of the pics with split bellies and other mods.  :cheesy:
> 
> 
> ...


bastard!


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## big pimpin (Nov 22, 2001)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 27 2007, 09:13 PM~9545481
> *Me too.  Here are some pics for all the whiners.  There are 2 frames in acouple of the pics with split bellies and other mods.  :cheesy:
> 
> 
> ...



hahahaahaha... nice!!!


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU+Dec 26 2007, 07:34 PM~9537664-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YET AGAIN NOT TRUE HOMIE...... :biggrin:


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

We might be lazy but I'm putting in some effort. I'm doing this by myself (I mean by myself, no one handing me tools,helpin me flip my frame over,etc) and the closest person with any experience is 40miles away busy with his own ride and family.

I sure wasnt wanting to know HOW to split/shrink, just why and if it was worth the problems I would be blaming on LIL after I did it and couldnt get my car back together.


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## fantasma loco (Mar 10, 2006)

one we did last sommer


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by hearse driver_@Dec 28 2007, 02:49 AM~9548748
> *I DO ALL OF MY OWN WORK , WELDING , PAINTING, AND I HAVE TRIED MY HAND AT INTERIOR WORK , I HAVE KIDS, A HOUSE, AND A UNPRIDICTABLE JOB, SOME PEOPLE, LIKE I SAID , DONT HAVE 15 YEARS AND THOUSANDS TO SPEND ON SPECULATION....
> YET AGAIN NOT TRUE HOMIE...... :biggrin:
> *


Everybody has to overcome obsticals. In the end you decide if you want to make it happen or not. If you want something bad enough you'll make it happen. I'm not trying to say you are not capable of building your own ride. Determination will always decide that.


The funny part of all this is that from what I see posted everone does them different anyways.

Here are a few pics of mine. It's pretty much all there. 


















Notice the difference between my frame at the front bumper mount and the frame that fantasma loco posted? His are twisted, mine are still in the stock location. 










Ignore that cross bar under the frame it just holds the wheels straight since there is no steering on the frame.

Like I said these are all done differently so its up to each person to decide how they are going to make it work.


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## NaptownSwangin (Jun 21, 2004)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 27 2007, 09:13 PM~9545481
> *Me too.  Here are some pics for all the whiners.  There are 2 frames in acouple of the pics with split bellies and other mods.  :cheesy:
> 
> 
> ...


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:


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## Reverend Hearse (Jan 2, 2006)

looks good , i like to see straight mounts ....


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## FULLYCLOWNIN (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Dec 26 2007, 08:34 PM~9537664
> *Then you don't want it bad enough. People who are not willing to spend the time learning and the money on tools, have to settle for average or below average work that others are willing to provide at a fee. I build my own shit to take my ride to a level of quality that is rarely seen in any hydraulic shop. I don't build to make money or for that matter to save money, I build to be better than average.  I have a couple of pics in my build. Check my link. It's not a step by step but it's something.
> *





:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## GREY GOOSE 96 (Mar 13, 2007)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Dec 27 2007, 08:13 PM~9545481
> *Me too.  Here are some pics for all the whiners.  There are 2 frames in acouple of the pics with split bellies and other mods.  :cheesy:
> 
> 
> ...


how much is it split??? :biggrin:


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

about a welders jacket width


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## GREY GOOSE 96 (Mar 13, 2007)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 28 2007, 08:37 PM~9554385
> *about a welders jacket width
> *


 :cheesy: :roflmao:


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## Time Bomb (Nov 26, 2001)

Yeah, and the first one was kinda ugly and pretty damn scary (doing it), but fuck it we were dumb ass white boys...




> _Originally posted by yetti_@Dec 22 2007, 02:12 PM~9508984
> *Everyone wants you to tell them how to do it but not put any work into it themselves. :biggrin:  I've been spliting frames for over 6 years and have done almost all of them different. :0
> *


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## Pinky Bitches (Nov 21, 2002)

:biggrin:


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## Southside01 (Jan 21, 2004)

NICE,,,,,,,VERYNICE,,,, :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## Unity_Jon (Oct 9, 2002)

It looks like you're all welding a temporary cross brace on the front of the frame infront of the spring pockets and then cutting the cross member v section out and then jacking it up to close the 'v' section and hoping the cross brace will keep the bumper mounts inline, sort of twisting the rest of front rails a bit ?

i like the shrinking idea (removing a chunk from the middle) of the crossmember to allow more ground clearance, even my non-hopper would benefit from that as when i do get switch happy it can slam pretty hard sometimes ! but i like to scrape also :dunno:


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Unity_Jon_@Dec 30 2007, 04:46 PM~9566185
> *It looks like you're all welding a temporary cross brace on the front of the frame infront of the spring pockets and then cutting the cross member v section out and then jacking it up to close the 'v' section and hoping the cross brace will keep the bumper mounts inline, sort of twisting the rest of front rails a bit ?
> 
> i like the shrinking idea (removing a chunk from the middle) of the crossmember to allow more ground clearance, even my non-hopper would benefit from that as when i do get switch happy it can slam pretty hard sometimes ! but i like to scrape also :dunno:
> *


I can tell you this when I did mine there was no hoping involved. I stretched the frame until the upper ears moved a predetermined amount and made sure that both side moved the same. My upper ears are within 1/16" of center. If you take the time to think it through all movement can be measured and controled.


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## Unity_Jon (Oct 9, 2002)

cool, better to engineer than to guess.... LOL


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by goodtimesvegas_@Dec 28 2007, 09:35 PM~9553662
> *how much is it split??? :biggrin:
> *



About the same as the Cadillac in your avatar. :biggrin:


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## budgetblueoval (Dec 25, 2006)

wtf is split belly mean . does any one have a clear defination cause ive never herd that term before


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## OUTHOPU (Feb 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by budgetblueoval_@Jan 1 2008, 11:45 PM~9584264
> *wtf is split belly mean . does any one have a clear defination cause ive never herd that term before
> *


Did you even read the first 5 pages of this topic? :uh:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by OUTHOPU_@Jan 2 2008, 02:36 AM~9585117
> *Did you even read the first 5 pages of this topic? :uh:
> *


 x2


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## budgetblueoval (Dec 25, 2006)

no ni dident


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by budgetblueoval_@Jan 3 2008, 04:41 AM~9594698
> *no ni dident
> *


 :banghead:


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## Unity_Jon (Oct 9, 2002)

> _Originally posted by budgetblueoval_@Jan 1 2008, 09:45 PM~9584264
> *wtf is split belly mean . does any one have a clear defination cause ive never herd that term before
> *


its when you got to a back street abortionist and they fuck up. :loco:


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## TWEEDY (Apr 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Unity_Jon_@Jan 3 2008, 04:28 PM~9598207
> *its when you got to a back street abortionist and they fuck up. :loco:
> *


 :0


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## jevonniespapi (Aug 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Unity_Jon_@Jan 3 2008, 06:28 PM~9598207
> *its when you got to a back street abortionist and they fuck up. :loco:
> *



THATS FUCKED UP!


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

I be splittin Bellies! :cheesy:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Jan 8 2008, 10:05 AM~9638015
> *I be splittin Bellies!  :cheesy:
> *


unobstrucruted pics or it didnt happen :biggrin:


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## timdog57 (Apr 2, 2002)

> _Originally posted by GRINGO_CONNECT_@Jan 8 2008, 10:46 AM~9638160
> *unobstrucruted pics or it didnt happen :biggrin:
> *



I don't know why something always gets in the way. :biggrin:


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## NY-BOSSMAN (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Jan 8 2008, 12:25 PM~9638542
> *I don't know why something always gets in the way.  :biggrin:
> *


yeah yeah yeah


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

> _Originally posted by timdog57_@Jan 8 2008, 10:25 AM~9638542
> *I don't know why something always gets in the way.  :biggrin:
> *



you want that intake timmay?


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