# Need diagram of fluid flow for a single pump front back dump setup



## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Just what the title says;

Need a fluid diagram of how the dumps should be plumbed correctly where a single pump can lift the front seperatly from the back. If im correct its 4 dumps with presure enering through the return on the dump one side blocked off and fluid passing through the second dump to either the front or the back correct? going on a low pressure low voltage setup.

thanx

edit: and who all sells 1 1/2 cyls or 2 inch cyls? prefer 6 inch for the front


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

Dice Suspension sells a 3 dump manifold that, in combination with a single pump, will lift either your front or rear. You can also run two of the manifolds to get independent control of each corner.
http://www.dicesuspensioncomponents.com/store#ecwid:category=2507834&mode=product&product=11979786


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Yea I'm flamilar with all those but unless someone is willing to donate those are no good to me right now. Eventually I will get one but not right now


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

Well then, just look at the manifold. It gives you the idea of how you would need to plumb three dumps to do what you're looking to do. 
You'll send oil through the check valve into the side of the first dump. Out of the end of the first dump run your slowdown back to the pump. Out of the other side run a tee. The tee will go to the end of the other two dumps. Then plug one side of the dumps and run your cylinder line out of the sides opposite the plug. Wire it so that when you want to lift the front you engage the rear dump (so that the rear doesn't build pressure) and the solenoid, and vise versa for lifting the rear. When you dump the front you will engage the front dump and the first dump, and vise versa for the rear.
Hope that helps.


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok I thought I had it correct ill put it together again and take a pic. I see dice sells just the manifold I may swing that then.


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

aaawwww damn.... I cant wrap my mind around it, is there any way you can take a pick of the layout hell just a quick drawing will sufice im getting it backwards somewhere.


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## Hydros (Apr 30, 2002)

southGAcustoms said:


> Just what the title says;
> 
> Need a fluid diagram of how the dumps should be plumbed correctly where a single pump can lift the front seperatly from the back. If im correct its 4 dumps with presure enering through the return on the dump one side blocked off and fluid passing through the second dump to either the front or the back correct? going on a low pressure low voltage setup.
> 
> ...




This is of two way valves, you should ask others if this is correct.












Or are you meaning using the real three ways or the two ways drilled with three ports?


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Regular Delta dump style


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Bump


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

30 second paint drawing


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

Ok so when you dump the front both that dump and the return dump open correct?


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

tre5peter said:


> 30 second paint drawing


I think that mite be wrong on the diagram...Jeremy correct me if I'm wrong....
The blocker dumps in the diagram are NC (normally closed) and in the direction they are drawn, will act as a check on the poppet... So when the pump is run oil will lift both front and rear??? It would let the front lift by it self??? I think the 2 outter dumps have to be rotated so when energized that valve will be open and allow flow only to that cylinder??? 

if you use a spool type valve that would work, becuase spools will not open when pressure is applied to the bottom of the cartridge valve, unlike the poppet...It has detent spring to seat ,but when pressure is applied it opens and act like a check in reverse.

Hydraulics 101...


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

so.... regular deltas wont be the ticket for this?


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

southGAcustoms said:


> so.... regular deltas wont be the ticket for this?


If you are using all standard delta NC valves, it would need 4 total dumps to achieve. 2 as blockers and 2 as dump to return.










Hope this helps


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

When we add this to a single pump for doing rear standing 3 Wheel, we do use a Normally Open in the blocks to achieve this. Because of the use of a N.O. valve it allows the switch wiring in a 2 pump set-up to be the same, and only the additon of 2 extra 6 prongs to be added in place of the rear corner 3 prongs...

The wiring is almost identical, but the orange and pruple wires are switched , to energize the valve and close the blocker opposite the side lifting


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

Here's the only pic I could find of how it used to be done before the manifolds were designed.








It's a one pump 5 dump setup plumbed just how I drew it, but with 2 more dumps so he had FBSS instead of just FB.

The way it works is that you engage the dumps that you don't want to build pressure in, while engaging the motor to lift. Then open the dumps associated with the corners you want to dump along with the dump attached to the slow down.


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## Juiced only (Aug 22, 2012)

tre5peter said:


> Dice Suspension sells a 3 dump manifold that, in combination with a single pump, will lift either your front or rear. You can also run two of the manifolds to get independent control of each corner.
> http://www.dicesuspensioncomponents.com/store#ecwid:category=2507834&mode=product&product=11979786


how good dose this work?


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## Hydros (Apr 30, 2002)

I thought I seen a three dump setup here a few years back. I thought *Tre5peter* had it nailed on the three. It looked like it would work. 

Never built any multiple dump setups, does my drawing look like it could work? This drawing gives the option for separate slows and checks for f and b. This is the reason for the pressure ports not being connected. But I was kinda wondering about pressure on both sides of the cheapy dumps (as I call them). 

*Tre5peter* not comparing, just trying to see if both designs have some chance of working.


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

yea Im a bit confused originaly I thought a 3 dump setup would work, but the one that ron drew out is how I invisioned it working with 4 dumps... so let me ask you this how does the inside work of the 3 dump manifold? seems layed out differnt then the way a 3 dump setup would be layed out? I know this is a plumbing nightmare but thats the way I want it to work as I will have no visable pumps or dumps anywhere in the car.


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

tre5peter said:


> Here's the only pic I could find of how it used to be done before the manifolds were designed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And these are just standard NC valves (PN S2A-00) free reverse flow De-energized or this Bi-directional PN S21-00.. Now I'm getting lost LOL .


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

Regular ol' stems and coils.


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## 93flee (Aug 29, 2012)

southGAcustoms said:


> Just what the title says;
> 
> Need a fluid diagram of how the dumps should be plumbed correctly where a single pump can lift the front seperatly from the back. If im correct its 4 dumps with presure enering through the return on the dump one side blocked off and fluid passing through the second dump to either the front or the back correct? going on a low pressure low voltage setup.
> 
> ...


 bro...... you need KINGFISHER if you go in the dark and say his name three times he may come out to help


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## 93flee (Aug 29, 2012)

93flee said:


> bro...... you need KINGFISHER if you go in the dark and say his name three times he may come out to help


:x:


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## JuicedBenz (Feb 5, 2007)

I don't see the problem here...

If you want to lift the front, you open the rear dump and then pressure will only build in the front. Granted that three dump design will have a ton of flow transfer.


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## dogbonekustoms (Feb 7, 2012)

nice topic. I saved BMH's diagram for future ref. Im on the 3dump manis now, but if ill ever build a set up for a mover i'd do that.


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## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

JuicedBenz said:


> I don't see the problem here...
> 
> If you want to lift the front, you open the rear dump and then pressure will only build in the front. Granted that three dump design will have a ton of flow transfer.


So you're saying there will be a ton of fluid transfer from turning?? If that's the case how could this setup possibly build enough pressure for 3 wheel? 

I'm going to try this out on my single rear pump. 1 Italian, and 2 deltas.


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## Dumps (Jan 7, 2002)

I have always used NC deltas for this and plumbed it with 4 dumps like Ron has it because of the reasons Ron posted. 

If you take your NC delta and push on the bottom with your small screwdriver, it will open. It will even flow with air pressure so in my opinion, a NC delta will not work correctly in the 3 dump setup.


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## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

Dumps said:


> I have always used NC deltas for this and plumbed it with 4 dumps like Ron has it because of the reasons Ron posted.
> 
> If you take your NC delta and push on the bottom with your small screwdriver, it will open. It will even flow with air pressure so in my opinion, a NC delta will not work correctly in the 3 dump setup.


That's what I was thinking...but isn't tre5peter talking about using a NC solenoid?


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## Dumps (Jan 7, 2002)

87gbody said:


> That's what I was thinking...but isn't tre5peter talking about using a NC solenoid?


Yes he is. He says it works but I don't see how.


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

It works, I've done it a ton of times. I also make a 3 dump manifold for it...

http://dicesuspensioncomponents.com...=164#!/~/product/category=2507834&id=11979786


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## 87gbody (Dec 20, 2007)

tre5peter said:


> It works, I've done it a ton of times. I also make a 3 dump manifold for it...
> 
> http://dicesuspensioncomponents.com...=164#!/~/product/category=2507834&id=11979786


Cool I'm going to give it a try. Could you confirm that I'm understanding this correctly?(3 dump on single rear pump):

To lift whole rear, leave dumps alone and lift regularly.

To lift one side, engage OPPOSITE blocker dump and pump.

To dump whole rear, engage all 3 dumps.

To dump one side, engage "main" dump and blocker dump on the same side.

So since the blocker dumps are backwards, when engaged they are directing pressure to the blocked port, I.e. a dead end. ???? What I'm not understanding is how could engaging the blocker dump direct pressure(from lift) to the plugged port AND allow fluid to flow from the cylinder to the return when the main dump is engaged? When engaged does it have the same check valve effect, but in the opposite direction?


I appreciate the info.


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

To lift whole rear, leave dumps alone and lift regularly. *correct*

To lift one side, engage OPPOSITE blocker dump and pump. *correct*

To dump whole rear, engage all 3 dumps. *correct*

To dump one side, engage "main" dump and blocker dump on the same side. *correct
*
If you can just get rid of the term "blocker" I'll think you'll get it. They are not blocking anything. When you open them it doesn't allow pressure to build in that dump.


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