# Who uses/used heim joints?



## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

I know ever since Pro Hopper introduced the Powerball (They were the first I can remember?), the vertical bolt pillow mount/uniball has been the standard joint for coil over rear suspensions. A few manufacturers have just about perfected their own versions since then, but I always wondered, what was wrong with heim joints/rod ends in the first place?

The main problem I'm having with powerball-style mounts is no matter how much pivot you can get with the raised side of car when articulating the rear end, the cylinder collar of the dumped side limits the misalignment to around 25-28* before it hits the retaining cap of the powerball.

I know thats not a really big deal to most, cuz you could simply raise the dumped corner a tad and gain some clearance before bustin a huge power 3-wheel, HOWEVER if your using telescopic cylinders, the bottom stage is going to stay closed until the first stage is maxed out,which in my case has the frame leaning past 30* before the 2nd stage even starts to lift.

Hopefully all I have to do it put a nice big chamfer on the lower collar, which shouldn't cause a strength issue since no load is ever put on that collar (unless you dead head the cylinder). But even for cars running single stage cylinders, putting a chamfer on the collar isnt going to do much if you're running deep spring cups, because now the deep cup is going to hit the power ball cap! I've seen a few powerballs break, and binding, in one way or the other, has got to be the only reason for ripping the cap right off. It would be nice to know that your not putting un-needed stress on a part that is a pain in the butt to replace (since bolt-on powerballs don't exist and would be kinda lame)

The other issue is a lot of powerball mounts set the pivot too high on the axle which means shorter springs, fittings closer to rear deck. I know having plenty of meat under the ball is probably a good thing for wear issues,since they have no liners, but sometimes every little bit of clearance counts.A while back Edmund from Edmunds Hydros showed a good example on here of how much lower a rod end can place your cylinders. Quite a difference the way he does em.


So with oh, about 80-90 degrees of misalignment in one direction, and 38 degrees (the most I've seen on a rod end with high misalignment spacers) in the other direction, Whats the dis-advantage to a quality heim joint? Most powerballs do look at home in coil over setups,but I thought it would look tight to thread the outside of the cylinder shaft, and run a lo-pro female rod end with a real low profile thru-bolt mount.  

damn, I just cant write a short post can I? lol


You can see where the edge of the lower stage collar hits the pivot joints retaining cap way before the 45* of pivot this joint would otherwise offer before the cylinder shaft hits the cap.


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## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

I've seen hydroholics do it.


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## undr8ed (May 25, 2003)

I know in off road applications, heim joints wear out and start to make noise... And the rebuildable ones seem to not last as long...

my $.02 without reading your whole dissertation :biggrin:


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

is there any danger in using heim joints?? im thinking of puttin them on my mono leaf s10 ..good or bad idea??


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

I HAVE THEM ON MY CAR


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## rzarock (Sep 13, 2009)

Hydroholics S10 build




















As long as you size them right you shouldn't have any problems. Plus, you can get them with PTFE liner bonded to the race IDs meaning you won't have to grease them. If you go that route try and find the liner that's a fabric not a molded compound. It lasts A LOT longer. NHBB, Aurora and RBC make them. I think you can get those brands from McMaster Carr.


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## mhiggy911 (Jul 6, 2005)

The problems I've seen were the heims joints breaking a lot. But if ur set up is just a lay and play they should be fine


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mhiggy911_@Feb 5 2011, 12:37 PM~19794332
> *The problems I've seen were the heims joints breaking a lot. But if ur set up is just a lay and play they should be fine
> *


Baja trucks put some serious fucking stress on their suspensions and I never heard of a heim braking on one. Get a quality part like the ones Aaron sent me from Hydrohaulics.


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Feb 5 2011, 09:17 AM~19794241
> *I HAVE THEM ON MY CAR
> *


do you hop or just lay and play?


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

I always use them on my buckets ,the ones that most commonly used are 1/2 fine thread so they fit right into the cylinder .

But Ive also used a larger size and drilled and taped the cylinder shalft to fit the size. You can get heavy duty forged.



The main reasons I like using the heim joints is that they are more stelf, (you can get them in tigher places)


Also they sit lower than a power ball , witch will get you car or truck lower.











Then I like to either to cut the cylinder shalft tip off and re-thread it or put the shalft in a larger casing so the heim joint will bottom out in the casing.

Doing this will get you more room where you are limited in space.









Here a compairrsion.


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by mhiggy911_@Feb 5 2011, 09:37 AM~19794332
> *The problems I've seen were the heims joints breaking a lot. But if ur set up is just a lay and play they should be fine
> *



Some guys wouldnt put the right amount space between the mounting tabs, so they would snap the joint, also there are cheep joints that wont take much to make them snap in a bad bind angle.


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

has any one seen drilled cylinders mounted??? i have two sets that where drilled i havent mounted them but seems dangerougs


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 5 2011, 10:45 AM~19794653
> *has any one seen drilled cylinders mounted??? i have two sets that where drilled i havent mounted them but seems dangerougs
> *



Ive done that a couple of times for guys that didnt want pay for some hymie joints or power balls, kinda getto to me and some guys have told me about the shalft breaking at the drilled hole

But Ive seen the over drilled out to where gonna be weak.


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## second 2none eddie (Dec 20, 2009)

i got it on my hopper or soon to be hopper :biggrin:


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 5 2011, 09:53 AM~19794401
> *do you hop or just lay and play?
> *



LAY N PLAY, BASIC SET UP. 3 BATTS ON EACH SIDE.

THEYVE HELD UP GREAT SINCE THE CAR REALLY ISNT HEAVY IN THE ASS END


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## KingsWood (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Feb 5 2011, 12:45 PM~19795241
> *LAY N PLAY, BASIC SET UP. 3 BATTS ON EACH SIDE.
> 
> THEYVE HELD UP GREAT SINCE THE CAR REALLY ISNT HEAVY IN THE ASS END
> *


LOL...did you retire from hopping?


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## Hannibal Lector (Oct 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by second 2none eddie_@Feb 5 2011, 11:34 AM~19794899
> *i got it on my hopper or soon to be hopper :biggrin:
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like its gonna handle the abuse. Ur hopper looks like a monster.


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

I FOUND SOME OLD ONES AT A LOCAL ACE HARDWARE IMA GO BUY SOME SEE HOW THEY WORK OUT


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 5 2011, 04:46 PM~19796490
> *I FOUND SOME OLD ONES AT A LOCAL ACE HARDWARE IMA GO BUY SOME SEE HOW THEY WORK OUT
> *



Your gonna have to use a backup not to take up the slack if it dont screw down all the way or cut off some of the threads.

Ive seen a OSH hardwear for about $10-12 , but there the cheep ones. They will still work as long as they are not going on too had of an angle.


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## lowdeville (Jul 24, 2004)

These work?
Or is something better quality needed?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-1-2-Inch-...=item3f070e9511


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## Cadillac Heaven (Jan 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by MUFASA_@Feb 5 2011, 12:45 PM~19795241
> *LAY N PLAY, BASIC SET UP. 3 BATTS ON EACH SIDE.
> 
> THEYVE HELD UP GREAT SINCE THE CAR REALLY ISNT HEAVY IN THE ASS END
> *


yea and that isnt your car in your avitar :0


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## Cadillac Heaven (Jan 9, 2006)

imo heim joints are better but require a little fabrication so most people slap a powerball on.

ive always drilled my cylinders and gone with a heavy duty heim joint... on my 63 i cut a square hole in the top of the trailing arm, reinforced the sides and bottom and drilled a hole through the side to bolt in the heim joint. so laid out the spring cup sat on the trailing arm. like i said a little more fab but i think a better result...


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## Madrox64 (Jul 7, 2002)

I have these brand new....$35 shipped....pm me


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by KingsWood_@Feb 5 2011, 01:10 PM~19795368
> *LOL...did you retire from hopping?
> *


NAW...I STILL PLAY AROUND A BIT.....DID 46" TONIGHT AT A CRUISE NIGHT OUT HERE :biggrin:


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## MUFASA (Aug 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Cadillac Heaven_@Feb 5 2011, 08:01 PM~19797506
> *yea and that isnt your car in your avitar  :0
> *


THATS SHOWING THE "PLAY" OF LAY N PLAY


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by lowdeville_@Feb 5 2011, 07:52 PM~19797459
> *These work?
> Or is something better quality needed?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4-1-2-Inch-...=item3f070e9511
> *



looks like a good deal.


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## JuicedBenz (Feb 5, 2007)

I have had my heims all around on my Benz for four years now almost. I have not broken a single one in 55,000 miles.


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## tearitup (Dec 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Cadillac Heaven_@Feb 5 2011, 08:08 PM~19797560
> *imo heim joints are better but require a little fabrication so most people slap a powerball on.
> 
> ive always drilled my cylinders and gone with a heavy duty heim joint... on my 63 i cut a square hole in the top of the trailing arm, reinforced the sides and bottom and drilled a hole through the side to bolt in the heim joint. so laid out the spring cup sat on the trailing arm. like i said a little more fab but i think a better result...
> *


got any pics of this.


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## kameleonlac (Sep 13, 2010)

> _Originally posted by second 2none eddie_@Feb 5 2011, 11:34 AM~19794899
> *i got it on my hopper or soon to be hopper :biggrin:
> 
> 
> ...



I had mine like this with 10 batts and three pumps and I only broke one 3 wheeling in a year. Like they said, you get what you pay for, so spend the money and get the good ones.


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## KINGNOS (Dec 16, 2008)

I had some high dollar heims about 15yrs ago on a rag Trey hopper with 4 gates, 14 bats... NO EXTRA WEIGHT! I locked the car up for the first time, went to close the trunk so I could hit it, heard a settling sound, if I hadn't taken a step back if would have taken my kneecaps off because both sides snapped in half and the car dropped like a Luke dancer! :wow: Heims have there place, I have some on my 4x4 too but they are 1 & 1/2... Never again for me, especially not on a hopper.


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## tearitup (Dec 4, 2008)

> _Originally posted by KINGNOS_@Feb 6 2011, 10:23 PM~19805588
> *I had some high dollar heims about 15yrs ago on a rag Trey hopper with 4 gates, 14 bats... NO EXTRA WEIGHT! I locked the car up for the first time, went to close the trunk so I could hit it, heard a settling sound, if I hadn't taken a step back if would have taken my kneecaps off because both sides snapped in half and the car dropped like a Luke dancer! :wow:  Heims have there place, I have some on my 4x4 too but they are 1 & 1/2... Never again for me, especially not on a hopper.
> *


someone mentioned drilling and retaping the cylinder shaft to use larger joints. i bet you were using the original size


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## KINGNOS (Dec 16, 2008)

Drilled and used 9/16" on some 16" Stillman fats. Like I said heims have their place, I have some on my truck, sandrail and a few on my quads but never again on a hopper cylinder so play at your own risk...


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## OutHopeU (Jan 21, 2011)

> _Originally posted by second 2none eddie_@Feb 5 2011, 11:34 AM~19794899
> *i got it on my hopper or soon to be hopper :biggrin:
> 
> 
> ...


Nice set up :thumbsup:


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## listoB (Nov 17, 2010)

> _Originally posted by edmunds costoms hyd_@Feb 5 2011, 11:08 AM~19794761
> *Ive  done that a couple of times for guys that didnt want pay for some hymie joints or power balls,  kinda getto to me and some guys have told me about the shalft breaking at the drilled hole
> 
> But Ive seen the over drilled out to where gonna be weak.
> *


do you have pics??


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

> _Originally posted by listoB_@Feb 7 2011, 06:35 PM~19812021
> *do you have pics??
> *



sorry bro that was years ago.


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Cadillac Heaven_@Feb 5 2011, 09:08 PM~19797560
> *imo heim joints are better but require a little fabrication so most people slap a powerball on.
> 
> ive always drilled my cylinders and gone with a heavy duty heim joint... on my 63 i cut a square hole in the top of the trailing arm, reinforced the sides and bottom and drilled a hole through the side to bolt in the heim joint. so laid out the spring cup sat on the trailing arm. like i said a little more fab but i think a better result...
> *


That sounds tight, I'd like to see that  I know hydro shops used to actually sell 'mounts' for drilled cylinders,(which means movement in only one direction, unless you use an undersized bolt and a wallered out hole), which I've seen alot of people do :uh: But never a mount for a heim...

KingNOS, I cant imagine the heim just breaking after being locked up, let alone both of them. It mustve been binding.

I figured I'd find some high end, 3/4" or 1" bore heims, with misaligment spacers down to 9/16 or 5/8" and mount them with the bolt running front to back so I could have full side to side movement, and still enough for the front to back axle movement. 

But finding some big eyelet joints with the small 1/2" shank may be an issue,so I'd have to drill out the cylinder shaft some,or turn down the heim shankt.. Or do they make heims/rod ends with big bores and small shanks like that?


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## KINGNOS (Dec 16, 2008)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 7 2011, 10:10 PM~19815279
> *That sounds tight, I'd like to see that  I know hydro shops used to actually sell 'mounts' for drilled cylinders,(which means movement in only one direction, unless you use an undersized bolt and a wallered out hole), which I've seen alot of people do  :uh:  But never a mount for a heim...
> 
> KingNOS, I cant imagine the heim just breaking after being locked up, let alone both of them. It mustve been binding.
> ...


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## alex75 (Jan 20, 2005)

:0 :0 :0 :0 :0 :0 :0


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## HOM1EZ_OnLY_509 (Nov 12, 2010)

> _Originally posted by rzarock_@Feb 5 2011, 09:31 AM~19794295
> *Hydroholics S10 build
> 
> 
> ...


can u even 3 wheel good with them or???


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## LOWASME (Aug 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by second 2none eddie_@Feb 5 2011, 11:34 AM~19794899
> *i got it on my hopper or soon to be hopper :biggrin:
> 
> 
> ...


Nice,what size are them cylinders?


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## southGAcustoms (Mar 12, 2008)

ive allways used them in my rides only broke them if I used those cheap ones, the ones I used that I have never broke I get from a place called BEARINGS and DRIVES. They are grade 8 can come greasable but I ususaly get the regular ones I always used them over powerballs becouse I like to lay lower in the rear here is the rear on my 62 lincoln with deep reverse cup I have 8 inches of spring with the car laying all the way out.






















there isnt a large amount of side clearance on the tabs becouse I dont plan on side to side or 3 wheel on this car


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## dogbonekustoms (Feb 7, 2012)

ttt.
Anybody has pics of a front coilover with heims? 
Im setting up my lowers with hydroholics heims to use w/ their cylinders. 
I dont have doubts on how to do it but i would like to see other peoples solutions.


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## tre5peter (Jul 21, 2008)

I sell them here... http://www.dicesuspensioncomponents.com/store#ecwid:category=2507837&mode=product&product=11979800

I use only high quality FK bearings. Also, Hydroholics doesn't and never has done installs. I did the install on the S-10, and the mitsubishi in the background of those pics. Whenever you use heim joints you need to run spacers on each side of the heim joint. If you don't, and you mount them like the lowrider in this thread is, you will snap the heim when you hit a big side. It needs to have the room to articulate side to side. I also always run a jam nut on the heim joint, it helps keep the threads in tact.
You can see the spacers on the heims in this pic...









I started my own products company so people can buy products from me knowing I have the install experience and can explain how to use the parts I sell.


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## jdc68chevy (Aug 31, 2008)

I LIVE AROUND THE BLOCK FROM SUMMIT THE RACING PARTS SUPPLIER , DO GUYS RECOMEND THERE HIEMS TO BE GOOD QUALITY .


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## 87cutty530 (May 6, 2006)

where can i buy some heim joints?


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## edmunds costoms hyd (Jun 26, 2002)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370497575790?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## 1lowagon (Apr 9, 2005)

I use heims on a Ford Expedition front and rear and they work great. Like many others say, don't go cheap in them, get some quality units.


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