# PISTON PUMP



## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

this topic is something i have been researching for a while some of the things im goin to say are from my personal notes and not cheerleading...i also would like people who have experience with them to commit and not some laptop lowrider who thinks he knows from what he has heard on here or elses where...

1..piston orientation-well i have had two car which had piston pumps and several friends back home which i compare notes with i tried two companies pumps in my cars and i have noticed some things i was wondering?..since they are sealed and u really cant visually see the piston how to u originate position..ie where do u know where it is?..and better yet where do u want .i have a wooden dowel that i have used to put and set the pistons in various positions..i have noticed some differences with coils and gears and battery voltage..WHERE IS THE IDEAL POSITION ALL THE WAY BACK OR FOR WARD IN A MIDDLE POSITON WITH VACUUM IN THE FROMT TO KINDA PUSH AND PULL ...

2...pressure n the piston...im aware of the various pressures in a piston...rangind from 50 to 500 psi i have seen...what judges the pressure in the piston the position of it the weight of the car gear size or just how it works..i tried both pistons in various presure ranges fron 50 to around 400 and noticed very little difference in over all power and performance...WHATS A IDEAL PRESSURE FOR A PISTON PUMP I THINK THE PUMP HAS A MOST EFFECTIVE RATING BARRING CAR SIZE OR SET UP..OR IS IT A BLANK PAGE FOR EVERYVEHICLE AND U JUST HAVE TO LOCATE UR FORMULA..

3..LIFE OF A PISTON...ok nothing in this hobby lasts forever..since theses r my first real attempts to try a piston pump the one i liked the best i have had for around a year and a half..im wondering what are the signs of wear where the tank and piston are wore behind repair..i have had no issues till recently no leaking its holding pressure ..the piston doesnt want to return in the rear position its seem to hang in the middle till u apply air pressure to re seat it...how long do they last..im sure it varies..but in lamens terms.. i also noticed during a service of the gear ..there was a pretty nice stamp of a grade eight bolt on my actual piston in tank so at some point the piston hit tha gear real hard...WHAT ARE THE SIGNS OF A FAILING TANK OR ONE THAT NEEDS REPLACED...

these are some of the main questions i have after usin these pumps for a while in a few cars to get some more general signs of how to set theses pumps up for proper performance..

thanks for your comments in advance


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## HARDLUCK88 (Nov 8, 2001)

x2


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by HARDLUCK88_@Feb 8 2008, 06:48 PM~9897867
> *x2
> *



:biggrin:


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROCKSOLID84_@Feb 8 2008, 05:28 AM~9893426
> *this topic is something i have been researching for a while some of the things im goin to say are from my personal notes and not cheerleading...i also would like people who have experience with them to commit and not some laptop lowrider who thinks he knows from what he has heard on here or elses where...
> 
> 1..piston orientation-well i have had two car which had piston pumps and several friends back home which i compare notes with i tried two companies pumps in my cars and i have noticed some things i was wondering?..since they are sealed and u really cant visually see the piston how to u originate position..ie where do u know where it is?..and better yet where do u want .i have a wooden dowel that i have used to put and set the pistons in various positions..i have noticed some differences with coils and gears and battery voltage..WHERE IS THE IDEAL POSITION ALL THE WAY BACK OR FOR WARD IN A MIDDLE POSITON WITH VACUUM IN THE FROMT TO KINDA PUSH AND PULL ...
> ...











:biggrin:


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## Paul K (Sep 24, 2005)

i'm sure if you ask whoever you bought the pumps from

would be happy to answer all these questions

:biggrin: :thumbsup:


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Paul K_@Feb 8 2008, 07:04 PM~9898025
> *i'm sure if you ask whoever you bought the pumps from
> 
> would be happy to answer all these questions
> ...



nope..


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

:biggrin:


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

All a piston does is help keep the oil from foaming, I've tried different pistons and all kinds of pressure's in them. They will give you a fast lock up on your first hit, and most of the cars that I have put a pressure gauge to, require around 1,000 psi to sustain the wieght of the car. 100, 200, and even 500 isnt enough pressure to make a difference on the high pressure side of the unit. Remember, its 30% hydraulic power, and 70% counter wieght, when you re-configure the trailing arms in the rear, ITS COUNTER WIEGHT!!!


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 07:16 PM~9898121
> *All a piston does is help keep the oil from foaming, I've tried different pistons and all kinds of pressure's in them. They will give you a fast lock up on your first hit, and most of the cars that I have put a pressure gauge to, require around 1,000 psi to sustain the wieght of the car. 100, 200, and even 500 isnt enough pressure to make a difference on the high pressure side of the unit. Remember, its 30% hydraulic power, and 70% counter wieght, when you re-configure the trailing arms in the rear, ITS COUNTER WIEGHT!!!
> *


FINALLY REAL TALK..


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

Good questions BTW.


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 07:16 PM~9898121
> *All a piston does is help keep the oil from foaming, I've tried different pistons and all kinds of pressure's in them. They will give you a fast lock up on your first hit, and most of the cars that I have put a pressure gauge to, require around 1,000 psi to sustain the wieght of the car. 100, 200, and even 500 isnt enough pressure to make a difference on the high pressure side of the unit. Remember, its 30% hydraulic power, and 70% counter wieght, when you re-configure the trailing arms in the rear, ITS COUNTER WIEGHT!!!
> *


 :no: 
Put 1000 psi of nitrogen in a piston pump and it will shoot that thing thru your backseat. Run 300 psi tops homie. The pistons job is to push oil thru the gear faster, plain and simple homie. Piston only makes the car do what it normally would do only in less licks. meaning that a car that normally bangs the bumper on the 5th or 6th hit would only require about 3 hits to do the same with the piston. Saves battery power and gear life a lil.


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

Its not the name brand, its not the piston, its the car and the way it is set-up. Wrapped frames, V6 and some pivot point magic will do the trick, but I would not be able to sleep at night :roflmao:


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

> :no:
> Put 1000 psi of nitrogen in a piston pump and it will shoot that thing thru your backseat. Run 300 psi tops homie. The pistons job is to push oil thru the gear faster, plain and simple homie. Piston only makes the car do what it normally would do only in less licks. meaning that a car that normally bangs the bumper on the 5th or 6th hit would only require about 3 hits to do the same with the piston. Saves battery power and gear life a lil.
> I'm not adding 1000 psi, you put 96vlts to a 12vlt motor and you will burn shit up, if I'm gonna hop, I know its going to cost money. If you overwork a gear with constant 15,000 psi(or more), you will eat up gears.


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 07:38 PM~9898307
> *:no:
> Put 1000 psi of nitrogen in a piston pump and it will shoot that thing thru your backseat. Run 300 psi tops homie. The pistons job is to push oil thru the gear faster, plain and simple homie. Piston only makes the car do what it normally would do  only in less licks. meaning that a car that normally bangs the bumper on the 5th or 6th hit would only require about 3 hits to do the same with the piston. Saves battery power and gear life a lil.
> *


  Is this true!!! I always thought it let your gear spin a little faster cause it doesnt work as hard and you would generate a little more pressure!


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

We have all been mislead.


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

Right, The gear doesnt have to suck the oil thru. The oil is being "pushed" thru when u use a piston so it doesnt have to work as hard hence saving gear life a lil.


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

I run 100-120 tops !!! When i did try more , 300-350 , i lost at least 20 inches on the stick !! and it was weak , no power . Use a fresh gear , make sure your piston is all the way back , top off your tank . It does make a difference what type of car though , i have a S10 Blazer , my buddys got a cutty , either way DONT GET CRAZY W/ THE PRESSURE !!


very







dangerous !!


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

How many inches did you gain from regular to piston, really. If you want to save gears and motors.....DON'T HOP!!!


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

How come i seen one guy who was like 12 in. from bangin bumper dropped a piston in then he was tapping the bumper on the pavement. Does it help with switch timing or something.


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

Piston is just a round "plate" with o-rings. When u put nitro in the tank it pushes the plate from the back to toward the middle of the pump. Oil leaves the tank and goes to cylinders. When oil goes back into the tank the oil pushes the plate "piston" further to the back but its pressurized so the gas is pushing the plate back toward the middle of the tank which builds up the pressure and pushes the oil thru your gear faster than it would normally....


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 06:04 PM~9898507
> *How many inches did you gain from regular to piston, really. If you want to save gears and motors.....DON'T HOP!!!
> *



No bullshit , i gained at least 18 inches on the stick !!!!


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## flaked85 (Mar 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 08:38 PM~9898307
> *:no:
> Put 1000 psi of nitrogen in a piston pump and it will shoot that thing thru your backseat. Run 300 psi tops homie. The pistons job is to push oil thru the gear faster, plain and simple homie. Piston only makes the car do what it normally would do  only in less licks. meaning that a car that normally bangs the bumper on the 5th or 6th hit would only require about 3 hits to do the same with the piston. Saves battery power and gear life a lil.
> *


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 07:03 PM~9898498
> *I run 100-120 tops !!! When i did try more , 300-350 , i lost at least 20 inches on the stick !! and it was weak , no power . Use a fresh gear , make sure your piston is all the way back , top off your tank . It does make a difference what type of car though , i have a S10 Blazer , my buddys got a cutty , either way DONT GET CRAZY W/ THE PRESSURE !!
> very
> 
> ...



Thats just enough to keep the piston against the gear, and avoid cavitation, starvation, and aereation.....you know what I mean. :biggrin:


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 06:08 PM~9898540
> *Thats just enough to keep the piston against the gear, and avoid cavitation, starvation, and aereation.....you know what I mean. :biggrin:
> *


 you want the piston "AWAY" FROM THE GEAR !!!!!


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 07:07 PM~9898530
> *No bullshit , i gained at least 18 inches on the stick !!!!
> *



Not sayin it isnt true, but pretty hard to believe.


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by miser211_@Feb 8 2008, 08:05 PM~9898519
> *How come i seen one guy who was like 12 in. from bangin bumper dropped a piston in then he was tapping the bumper on the pavement.  Does it help with switch timing or something.
> *


That cat probably had bad timing. Probably couldnt keep it on time enuff hits for it to get that bumpa but since a piston does it in less licks he could since 3 hits is easier to get right than 6 consecutive good hits.


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 07:10 PM~9898557
> *you want the piston "AWAY" FROM THE GEAR !!!!!
> *



Damm I fucked up, I meant against the oil, sorry for the confusion, good catch.


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 08:12 PM~9898575
> *That cat probably had bad timing. Probably couldnt keep it on time enuff hits for it to get that bumpa but since a piston does it in less licks he could since 3 hits is easier to get right than 6 consecutive good hits.
> *


makes sense!


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## flaked85 (Mar 19, 2005)

if your runnin 8 to the nose you will need to buy as many motors as possible,because you will fry them up,but since i've put a piston in my car i've had them last a little longer than before.


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

and i have noticed that pistons from different companies often required different psi levels to achieve the same inches ON THE SAME CAR. Some were in the 100-200 psi range. Others needed 300 or so


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 06:13 PM~9898585
> *Damm I fucked up, I meant against the oil, sorry for the confusion, good catch.
> *


 Ya, i might have been pushin' it a little , but it seriously gained 10"- 12" not bullshittin'


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 06:16 PM~9898606
> *and i have noticed that pistons from different companies often required different psi levels to achieve the same inches ON THE SAME CAR. Some were in the 100-200 psi range. Others needed 300 or so
> *


 I'VE ALSO HEARD THE SAME .


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

None piston street with V8, maybe works better woth V6's


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

so when you are hittin the switch with a piston is it best to let the car fully dump all the way down to compress that piston as much as possible.


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)




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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 08:16 PM~9898606
> *and i have noticed that pistons from different companies often required different psi levels to achieve the same inches ON THE SAME CAR. Some were in the 100-200 psi range. Others needed 300 or so
> *



i have noticed this yoo the prohopper piston takes trhe most i have seen no air compressor on that one...


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by miser211_@Feb 8 2008, 06:20 PM~9898631
> *so when you are hittin the switch with a piston is it best to let the car fully dump all the way down to compress that piston as much as possible.
> *


 " YEP , EXACTLY !!"


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ROCKSOLID84_@Feb 8 2008, 08:20 PM~9898644
> *i have noticed this yoo the prohopper piston takes trhe most i have seen no air compressor on that one...
> *


  :yes:


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

Retired!!!!!


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by ROCKSOLID84_@Feb 8 2008, 06:20 PM~9898644
> *i have noticed this yoo the prohopper piston takes trhe most i have seen no air compressor on that one...
> *



I'm not tryin' to start no drama , but i'll just say two words ...." BLACK MAGIC "


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

87cuttlashopper, P-TOWNBUTCHER, RAGTOPROY, miser211, 99expo, indyzmosthated, cartier01

Full house.


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by 87cuttlashopper_@Feb 8 2008, 06:24 PM~9898666
> *
> 
> 
> ...



"NICE !!"


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

Even though it takes more psi, i still like Prohopper's :biggrin: i like their lil pressure relief valve too (attaches to the gauge). Its just long and shiny!!! :biggrin: Looks important! :biggrin: :biggrin: Like a long ass time bomb, im gonna try to carry one on a plane the next time i fly and see what security will say :biggrin:


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

Piston from usa motorsports.


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

ok ok I got one! Which works better a piston or a bladder? I figure a piston because it would push in one direction.


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## 87cuttlashopper (Dec 11, 2002)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 07:29 PM~9898689
> *Even though it takes more psi, i still like Prohopper's  :biggrin: i like their lil pressure relief valve too (attaches to the gauge). Its just long and shiny!!!  :biggrin: Looks important!  :biggrin:  :biggrin: Like a long ass time bomb, im gonna try to carry one on a plane the next time i fly and see what security will say  :biggrin:
> *



Bring on the nitrile gloves and K-Y jelly!!!!


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## flaked85 (Mar 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 09:25 PM~9898674
> *I'm not tryin' to start no drama , but i'll just say two words ...." BLACK MAGIC "
> *


XXXXXXXXX10


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 8 2008, 06:29 PM~9898689
> *Even though it takes more psi, i still like Prohopper's  :biggrin: i like their lil pressure relief valve too (attaches to the gauge). Its just long and shiny!!!  :biggrin: Looks important!  :biggrin:  :biggrin: Like a long ass time bomb, im gonna try to carry one on a plane the next time i fly and see what security will say  :biggrin:
> *



:0 :0 :0 :0 :uh: :uh: :uh: :0 :0 :0 ................ :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by flaked85_@Feb 8 2008, 06:41 PM~9898754
> *XXXXXXXXX10
> *




:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


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## DELTORO HYDRAULICS (Oct 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by miser211_@Feb 8 2008, 07:32 PM~9898701
> *ok ok I got one!  Which works better a piston or a bladder?  I figure a piston because it would push in one direction.
> *



the direction of the piston doesnt make much of a diff as long as there is pressure in the tank the oil is only going to go one way straight to the exit :biggrin:


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...

1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
You need a happy medium between oil cap. and gas cap. I tell our customers to start with piston against back of tank, and fill oil to cover just the top of the gear. then a small amount of air is applied to the tank and it drives the piston forward, backing off the fill plug to release trapped air on oil side off tank. when all the air has escaped and oil appears tighten down fill plug. 
This sets the piston around 1.5 to 2'' off the rear of tank....

2) Pressure in tank. Pressure is the next main factor is a piston accumulated pump working correct. When a piston and pressure is set rite it should act like a slo-down. And depending on manufactor of the tank it does make a difference.
Our tank has a 5.510 inside diameter and when 200 psi is added, the piston has the lifting force of around 2700 lbs....So ,if you add too much pressure, it will have an holding effect , and when hopping my cause the rear to unload and bounce...

3) How effective is a piston 90% of pump failure is cavitation. Our pump in the last few years have gone to numerous heights. It takes 10 H.P on a #11 to generate 10,000 psi. we've seen max outs of 16,000...Our 12 volt D.C motors were never designed for this, neither was the gear. We spin a gear around 10,000 RPM .... With the gear trying to move 6 gallons per minute ,it creates one hell of a suction, soo hard it pulls gases out of the oil .It does more than that, it pulls trapped gases fron the extruded aluminium body. Look inside a beat-up gear,,,,It looks like it's been sand blasted...That is cavitationand loss of lubrication....
So you need just enough pressure to keep the oil from cavitating and airation on return, Which does not require alot anything more could hold dumps and checks open creating false diagnosis

4) Wear. This happens with any moving parts. I recomend cleaning and relubricating every gear change...Small metal fragments will get lodged between tank and piston And create a gulling effect, This is not to serious if checked . Piston should travel smoothly in tank with out o-rings.
I've had years on some piston/tanks with no rebuild or failure!!!! And on extreme duty (single pump truck) clean and rebuilt 6 times in one year. Honed twice.

5) Piston vs. Bladder. Both have the same concept. Piston has moving parts. Which could create hazards. Pistons are re-buildable. Bladders are replacable. Example... Blow a hose, pressure in tank drives oil out. piston bottoms out on pump head , bladder pops. As earliersaid, metal shavings could bind piston, where a bladder has no effect from wear.... Pistons have controllable volume, by where you start travel before pressurization. Bladders don't not. 

So if you are running a piston or bladders and it is tuned correctly , gears and motors will last longer ,with a gain of more inches....Gears in our cars are used for atleast 1 years with out failure. Motors toooo.My cutlass is also running @132 volts !!!!! :0 

Making higher pressures not really,Making pressures faster yes!!!!
Moving more volume..Most diffently.


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

I should have put "Piston pump 101"


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## Paul K (Sep 24, 2005)

:0 :cheesy:


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

well im glad the topics moving in an informative diretion and not a cheer leading one..i hope we all can ;earn from this post thats the point of it..


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## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 09:03 PM~9898498
> *I run 100-120 tops !!! When i did try more , 300-350 , i lost at least 20 inches on the stick !! and it was weak , no power . Use a fresh gear , make sure your piston is all the way back , top off your tank . It does make a difference what type of car though , i have a S10 Blazer , my buddys got a cutty , either way DONT GET CRAZY W/ THE PRESSURE !!
> very
> 
> ...


 

That reminds me where is that pic of the dude that got his face/head busted up from a tank or something exploding


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## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 05:00 AM~9901118
> *I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...
> 
> 1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
> ...





good info


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 04:07 AM~9901123
> *I should have put "Piston pump 101"
> *



why would the pistom hit the gear?..


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## BlackMagicHydraulics (Sep 21, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ROCKSOLID84_@Feb 9 2008, 05:23 PM~9903447
> *why would the pistom hit the gear?..
> *


Loss of oil or piston was not pushed back correctly....On our old big solid piston (genI) if you blew a hose it would run out and bottom on the pumphead.









With our new design it allows for more gas capacity.










The piston is concaved on both side with a deeper area on the gas side to reduce weight ,which make the piston move faster and quieter


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 05:51 PM~9903592
> *Loss of oil or piston was not pushed back correctly....On our old big solid piston (genI) if you blew a hose it would run out and bottom on the pumphead.
> 
> 
> ...




well hmm..so honig is a common practice to piston maintenance


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## zc_delacruz (Sep 13, 2007)

GOOOOODDD TOPIC I'M ALREADY TAKIN NOTES :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## roch83 (Jun 18, 2007)




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## P-TOWNBUTCHER (Nov 30, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 03:51 PM~9903592
> *Loss of oil or piston was not pushed back correctly....On our old big solid piston (genI) if you blew a hose it would run out and bottom on the pumphead.
> 
> 
> ...



mine is the gen.1 , it has a longer tank also , right ?


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## DELTORO HYDRAULICS (Oct 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 03:00 AM~9901118
> *I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...
> 
> 1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
> ...



*Good words here Ron but actually we have busted hoses and fittings and did not pop the bladder. We are hopping on the same bladders we have hopped on for years with no maintenance.  *


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

only question i have about a piston pump is when the hell are people gona start painting or chroming them? nothings worse than a nice setup with a raw tank...


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by DELTORO HYDRAULICS_@Feb 9 2008, 09:22 PM~9904909
> *Good words here Ron but actually we have busted  hoses and fittings and did not pop the bladder. We are hopping on the same bladders we have hopped on for years with no maintenance.
> *


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 9 2008, 11:09 PM~9905856
> *only question i have about a piston pump is when the hell are people gona start painting or chroming them? nothings worse than a nice setup with a raw tank...
> *



prohopper come polished the rest i guess u have to pay for a finish?...


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## BIGBEN (Oct 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 9 2008, 09:09 PM~9905856
> *only question i have about a piston pump is when the hell are people gona start painting or chroming them? nothings worse than a nice setup with a raw tank...
> *


You can get it chrome right from BMH you just got to shell out some $$$


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## OVERNIGHT CELEBRITY (Jan 4, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BIGBEN_@Feb 11 2008, 03:29 AM~9914617
> *
> 
> 
> ...


  GOOD TIMES BABY


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## 1usamotorsports.com (Sep 17, 2003)

Both have pros and cons . Imo piston pushes a bit more power because of the force directly pushes against the piston and directs oil str8 to the gear .


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## RAGTOPROY (Sep 4, 2004)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Feb 9 2008, 11:09 PM~9905856
> *only question i have about a piston pump is when the hell are people gona start painting or chroming them? nothings worse than a nice setup with a raw tank...
> *


Think......PROHOPPER


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## lowrider 4 life (Nov 11, 2005)

waiting on my 3rd gen piston tank kit :biggrin:


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## 1usamotorsports.com (Sep 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by RAGTOPROY_@Feb 11 2008, 05:31 PM~9918203
> *Think......PROHOPPER
> *




 Proven.


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

If prohopper is aluminum wouldnt it scar up more from metal shavings as opposed to a steel tank?


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

yeah if it was aluminum to aluminum contact, i dont think you ever want that to happen though?


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

Good knowledge!!! TTT


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## DARKJUGGERNAUT (Apr 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by miser211_@Feb 11 2008, 06:32 PM~9918717
> *If prohopper is aluminum wouldnt it scar up more from metal shavings as opposed to a steel tank?
> *



it is mine is scared up pretty bad i goy aloy of use out of it...


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## KINGFISH_CUSTOMS (Oct 8, 2006)

atleast u can get the tank honed or buy a replacement one without have to get a whole new pump kit hehe


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## tx regulater 254 (Feb 12, 2008)

how do u hone da tank ron da don of pistons?


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## TYTE9D (May 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by BIGBEN_@Feb 11 2008, 02:29 AM~9914617
> *You can get it chrome right from BMH you just got to shell out some $$$
> 
> 
> ...


nice pump you got there.  

good topic/good info! :thumbsup:


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## tx regulater 254 (Feb 12, 2008)

200 psi den try 50 up den 50 down


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## BIGBEN (Oct 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TYTE95_@Feb 12 2008, 04:22 PM~9926622
> *nice pump you got there.
> 
> good topic/good info! :thumbsup:
> *



Thank you We will see wut it do this week end :cheesy:


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## Unlimited Hustle (Jul 8, 2002)

Make sure you come down to the shop so we can see it all together :thumbsup:


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## AZRIDER (Jun 30, 2007)

I bought a car with a piston pump and it had a small oil lead in the front, well i fix it and now i need to put oil in the pump.I'm not sure how to do it.Do i have to take the air out so there wont be any pressure? or Do i just add oil like a regular pump? The pressure guage is located where the oil plug is. Your help is appreciated.


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## TYTE9D (May 22, 2007)

release the pressure first homie!


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BIGBEN_@Feb 11 2008, 04:29 AM~9914617
> *You can get it chrome right from BMH you just got to shell out some $$$
> 
> 
> ...


is that dumped plumbed correctly. I thought the return was supposed to go to the top port out of the two on that side?


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## Unlimited Hustle (Jul 8, 2002)

In the picture it was plumbed wrong but was fixed right, the square body that it used to mock it up was facing the other direction and when I put the real square on it I did'nt think twice about it and turned the candle back towards the tank, but that same night I remembered and call him to bring it back


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## miser211 (Feb 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Unlimited Hustle_@Feb 13 2008, 11:27 PM~9938424
> *In the picture it was plumbed wrong but was fixed right, the square body that it used to mock it up was facing the other direction and when I put the real square on it I did'nt think twice about it and turned the candle back towards the tank,  but that same night I remembered and call him to bring it back
> *


 :thumbsup:


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## BIGBEN (Oct 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Unlimited Hustle_@Feb 13 2008, 09:31 AM~9932683
> *Make sure you come down to the shop so we can see it all together  :thumbsup:
> *



Will Do


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## TYTE9D (May 22, 2007)

better yet take some pics and post them so we can all see that BM work. :biggrin:


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## BIGBEN (Oct 6, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TYTE95_@Feb 13 2008, 11:45 PM~9939266
> *better yet take some pics and post them so we can all see that BM work. :biggrin:
> *




You got it homie :thumbsup:


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

some great infomration! :biggrin:


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## tical killa beez (Oct 30, 2003)

So would everyone reccomend a piston pump for everyday use? Or scrictly for show? I've been looking into them for a while im not sure what I want to do yet


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## tx regulater 254 (Feb 12, 2008)

how easy should the piston move back in forth in the tank when takin off the block?


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## 84Dippin (Nov 3, 2004)

great infomration!!!!!   :thumbsup:


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## tical killa beez (Oct 30, 2003)

Ttt


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## God's Son2 (Jan 28, 2007)

jhvjb


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## low_g (Oct 17, 2006)

:0


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## Anson72 (Nov 20, 2007)

TTT

Thinkin bout redoing my setup with a single piston to the front off of 6 batteries. I have 2 street pro hoppers to the front now. Is it worth it to do? I've been around piston pumps before but never had one in my car. How much maintenance is it for a weekly cruiser? Also aluminum or steel? 3/4 0r 1 inch for a street car?


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## Pjay (Jul 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 04:00 AM~9901118
> *I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...
> 
> 1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
> ...


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## tkustomstx (May 24, 2008)

BMH PISTON IS WHAT IM RUNNIN AND LOVIN IT :biggrin:


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## Anson72 (Nov 20, 2007)

> _Originally posted by Anson72_@Dec 5 2010, 06:27 PM~19246802
> *TTT
> 
> Thinkin bout redoing my setup with a single piston to the front off of 6 batteries. I have 2 street pro hoppers to the front now. Is it worth it to do? I've been around piston pumps before but never had one in my car.  How much maintenance is it for a weekly cruiser?  Also aluminum or steel? 3/4 0r 1 inch for a street car?
> *


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## casper38 (Aug 17, 2007)

good info :thumbsup: i think both piston and bladder are good pumps aslong as u know how to use them


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## rollin-hard (Aug 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 03:00 AM~9901118
> *I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...
> 
> 1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
> ...


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: piston the best fuck the rest :biggrin:


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## DirtyTrixsHydros (Dec 30, 2010)

good info thumbsup.gif i think both piston and bladder are good pumps aslong as u know how to use them cool.gif


--------------------
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rollin-hard 
post Yesterday, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE(BlackMagicHydraulics @ Feb 9 2008, 03:00 AM) *
I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...

1) Piston location. Location is a critical part. Compressed gas will drop in pressure when area is increased, If there is not enough volume(capacity) it decreases faster. So, since our piston tank I.D is 5.510 and a concaved piston it does not require a lot of pressure to be more effeicent.
You need a happy medium between oil cap. and gas cap. I tell our customers to start with piston against back of tank, and fill oil to cover just the top of the gear. then a small amount of air is applied to the tank and it drives the piston forward, backing off the fill plug to release trapped air on oil side off tank. when all the air has escaped and oil appears tighten down fill plug.
This sets the piston around 1.5 to 2'' off the rear of tank....

2) Pressure in tank. Pressure is the next main factor is a piston accumulated pump working correct. When a piston and pressure is set rite it should act like a slo-down. And depending on manufactor of the tank it does make a difference.
Our tank has a 5.510 inside diameter and when 200 psi is added, the piston has the lifting force of around 2700 lbs....So ,if you add too much pressure, it will have an holding effect , and when hopping my cause the rear to unload and bounce...

3) How effective is a piston 90% of pump failure is cavitation. Our pump in the last few years have gone to numerous heights. It takes 10 H.P on a #11 to generate 10,000 psi. we've seen max outs of 16,000...Our 12 volt D.C motors were never designed for this, neither was the gear. We spin a gear around 10,000 RPM .... With the gear trying to move 6 gallons per minute ,it creates one hell of a suction, soo hard it pulls gases out of the oil .It does more than that, it pulls trapped gases fron the extruded aluminium body. Look inside a beat-up gear,,,,It looks like it's been sand blasted...That is cavitationand loss of lubrication....
So you need just enough pressure to keep the oil from cavitating and airation on return, Which does not require alot anything more could hold dumps and checks open creating false diagnosis

4) Wear. This happens with any moving parts. I recomend cleaning and relubricating every gear change...Small metal fragments will get lodged between tank and piston And create a gulling effect, This is not to serious if checked . Piston should travel smoothly in tank with out o-rings.
I've had years on some piston/tanks with no rebuild or failure!!!! And on extreme duty (single pump truck) clean and rebuilt 6 times in one year. Honed twice.

5) Piston vs. Bladder. Both have the same concept. Piston has moving parts. Which could create hazards. Pistons are re-buildable. Bladders are replacable. Example... Blow a hose, pressure in tank drives oil out. piston bottoms out on pump head , bladder pops. As earliersaid, metal shavings could bind piston, where a bladder has no effect from wear.... Pistons have controllable volume, by where you start travel before pressurization. Bladders don't not.

So if you are running a piston or bladders and it is tuned correctly , gears and motors will last longer ,with a gain of more inches....Gears in our cars are used for atleast 1 years with out failure. Motors toooo.My cutlass is also running @132 volts !!!!! shocked.gif

Making higher pressures not really,Making pressures faster yes!!!!
Moving more volume..Most diffently. wink.gif
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that was some good info!! 

so nitrogen is what you use!?!?! :banghead: Ive been trying to figure the piston out!! so regular air wont work?? 
:drama:


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## Psych0 (Dec 22, 2007)

> _Originally posted by DirtyTrixsHydros_@Jan 3 2011, 10:35 AM~19489552
> *
> 
> so nitrogen is what you use!?!?! :banghead: Ive been trying to figure the piston out!! so regular air wont work??
> ...


 Air works too


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## rollin-hard (Aug 18, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Psych0_@Jan 3 2011, 12:25 PM~19490695
> *Air works too
> *


 :yes: :yes:


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## CE 707 (Jul 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by P-TOWNBUTCHER_@Feb 8 2008, 08:03 PM~9898498
> *I run 100-120 tops !!! When i did try more , 300-350 , i lost at least 20 inches on the stick !! and it was weak , no power . Use a fresh gear , make sure your piston is all the way back , top off your tank . It does make a difference what type of car though , i have a S10 Blazer , my buddys got a cutty , either way DONT GET CRAZY W/ THE PRESSURE !!
> very
> 
> ...


I notciced the same thing happend to my box when I had it but like you say dont get crazy with that pressure cuz you cant realy fuck some shit up if you dont know what your doing


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by ROCKSOLID84_@Feb 8 2008, 04:28 AM~9893426
> *this topic is something i have been researching for a while some of the things im goin to say are from my personal notes and not cheerleading...i also would like people who have experience with them to commit and not some laptop lowrider who thinks he knows from what he has heard on here or elses where...
> 
> 1..piston orientation-well i have had two car which had piston pumps and several friends back home which i compare notes with i tried two companies pumps in my cars and i have noticed some things i was wondering?..since they are sealed and u really cant visually see the piston how to u originate position..ie where do u know where it is?..and better yet where do u want .i have a wooden dowel that i have used to put and set the pistons in various positions..i have noticed some differences with coils and gears and battery voltage..WHERE IS THE IDEAL POSITION ALL THE WAY BACK OR FOR WARD IN A MIDDLE POSITON WITH VACUUM IN THE FROMT TO KINDA PUSH AND PULL ...
> ...


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by BlackMagicHydraulics_@Feb 9 2008, 03:00 AM~9901118
> *
> I know I've responded to too many of these, but I want to explain a few things...
> 
> ...


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

"Pistons have controllable volume, by where you start travel before pressurization. Bladders don't not."

hmmm I dont quite get this part...


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## SLIMONTHABUMPERRRRRR (Jul 10, 2005)

i've seen a car with 60 psi of nitrogen not work.....he drop the press down to 40 psi and it work fine.....why is that?


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)

> _Originally posted by SLIMONTHABUMPERRRRRR_@Jan 5 2011, 03:26 PM~19512366
> *i've seen a car with 60 psi of nitrogen not work.....he drop the press down to 40 psi and it work fine.....why is that?
> *


*I WOULD SAY NO.2 WOULD APPLY TO YOUR QUESTION. OVER PRESSURISING. THAT HAPPENED TO ME ONCE.*


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## DirtyTrixsHydros (Dec 30, 2010)

SWEEEEEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## red Hormiga (Oct 3, 2008)




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## 3onthetree (Feb 15, 2009)

TTT


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## BrownAzt3ka (May 4, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## DIPN714 (Oct 17, 2007)

87cuttlashopper said:


> > :no:
> > Put 1000 psi of nitrogen in a piston pump and it will shoot that thing thru your backseat. Run 300 psi tops homie. The pistons job is to push oil thru the gear faster, plain and simple homie. Piston only makes the car do what it normally would do only in less licks. meaning that a car that normally bangs the bumper on the 5th or 6th hit would only require about 3 hits to do the same with the piston. Saves battery power and gear life a lil.
> > I'm not adding 1000 psi, you put 96vlts to a 12vlt motor and you will burn shit up, if I'm gonna hop, I know its going to cost money. If you overwork a gear with constant 15,000 psi(or more), you will eat up gears.
> 
> ...


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## Sweet_Daddy_21 (Feb 19, 2003)

:thumbsup:


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