# CAPACITORS?



## King Of Rimz (Apr 20, 2003)

WHAT CAPACITOR WOULD YOU GUYS RUN FOR A FOSGATE 360.6 AMP AND 2 10" KICKERS??


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## lukedogg (Aug 24, 2003)

use the search and you will see that no one on here will recomend using one.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

Yeah, let's help him out with that...

http://www.layitlow.com/forums/index.php?a...hlite=capacitor


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

lol, and the stupidest thing i ever heard, was someone using a cap as an enhancement for a ground.


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## vcmp3 (Oct 17, 2003)

Big waste of money!!! Put a better battery up front with that amp and you will be good homie


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## King Of Rimz (Apr 20, 2003)

:0 THANX HOMIES, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SPEND 150 ON A FOSGATE DIGITAL BUT I DECIDED TO ASK HERE FIRST


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by King Of Rimz_@Mar 13 2005, 09:14 PM
> *:0  THANX HOMIES, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SPEND 150 ON A FOSGATE DIGITAL BUT I DECIDED TO ASK HERE FIRST
> [snapback]2846725[/snapback]​*


Wise decision...


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by King Of Rimz_@Mar 13 2005, 09:14 PM
> *:0  THANX HOMIES, I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SPEND 150 ON A FOSGATE DIGITAL BUT I DECIDED TO ASK HERE FIRST
> [snapback]2846725[/snapback]​*


You'd be pretty pissed when I told you the dealer you bought it from paid about $60 for it, and it cost the manufacturer about $2 to make it too


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by vcmp3_@Mar 13 2005, 02:59 AM
> *Big waste of money!!! Put a better battery up front with that amp and you will be good homie
> [snapback]2844485[/snapback]​*



another reason i dont post in car stereo anymore, but maybe i should. that is a false statement. caps help with transients aka voltage spikes, VERRRRY BAD for electrical systems. the only thing a better battery does is allow you to play your stereo longer when you car is turned off and dont have the alt charging your "system", which the battery is a part of. 

1) first get a cap, 1F for every 1000w is fine, if you have more, not a big deal.
2) if that doesnt help with flickering of lights, get a bigger alternator , so you can keep up with the added current draw/ power consumption
3) a nice battery with some high cca rating in case you do bump with the ignition off

you can also invest in a class D amp which doesnt put a huge load on your system while giving superb power output. can help save you some money you can put into a better amp. but again, caps dont hut, and they arent a waste of money unless you start buying more farads then you really need to


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

Or they can do this when to much current is passed through them...



















We have been over and over this topic before...

Here is some further reading on the subject...

http://www.splbassx.com/forums/index.php?s...opic=2202&st=0&


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OrangeCounty58_@Mar 14 2005, 03:22 PM
> *another reason i dont post in car stereo anymore, but maybe i should. that is a false statement. caps help with transients aka voltage spikes, VERRRRY BAD for electrical systems. the only thing a better battery does is allow you to play your stereo longer when you car is turned off and dont have the alt charging your "system", which the battery is a part of.
> 
> 1) first get a cap, 1F for every 1000w is fine, if you have more, not a big deal.
> ...


I'm gonna say you should just keep not posting in car stereo anymore. Do you know what transience is? A class D amp is only 5-10% more efficient than a class a/b at full tilt, and they are produce very dirty power, which isn't "superb". A 1 farad cap is good for 3 amps for 1 second, that does nothing to an electrical system. In some cases your voltage can actually be LOWER by using a cap.


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

ive had caps blow up, and never have it blown up, unless i did it on purpose. they are very volotile if you exceed their normal range of operation. with the advent of more efficient amplifiers, its not an issue as it once was. you guys are talking about output, not the same as creating a stable system. many times its trade off. bottom line, depends what you are using the cap for. need to look at an overall picture at times.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OrangeCounty58_@Mar 14 2005, 09:45 PM
> *ive had caps blow up, and never have it blown up, unless i did it on purpose. they are very volotile if you exceed their normal range of operation. with the advent of more efficient amplifiers, its not an issue as it once was. you guys are talking about output, not the same as creating a stable system. many times its trade off. bottom line, depends what you are using the cap for. need to look at an overall picture at times.
> [snapback]2850918[/snapback]​*


How do you get output? Input. Power goes in, power comes out. You can't make power from no power. Why would you blow up a cap on purpose? Ever tested a cap? They dont stabalize anything but the profit margin of the vendor.


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

yes there is output and input, you are using amplifiers correct? otherwise youd call it a buffer and not an amplifier. power goes in and out? supply current goes in, and from that power is produce with a load (the speakers). that is why a battery is rated in Amps. you see caps in all types of circuits. main usaage is to improve power factor, and prolong the life of your power supply (batteries). i can go on about boring control, power and instrumentation theory but kind of pointless. also that test doesnt show a valid response. not real world, a bunch of tones. the real world is a complex place.

you see a lot of things when you install awhile, including debates on what works or how to do things. from my experience their are systems thar are shitty, systems that are decent and systems that are "Sound". and im speaking electrically stable. cant remember how many times a simple cap has fixed these electrical problems, and sometimes even an alt upgrade. but the last thing we did was connect another battery, unless it was something like a VLX-400 or something huge. then we just dedicated its own power supply, since their is always a limit on what you can do with a car. 

you are right, most of the time you see idiots selling caps because the consumer doesnt know any better. also a true class D is not 5-10% more efficient. again not going into the details or id have to start producing CAD simulations, and that will give us all headaches.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 14 2005, 09:52 PM
> *How do you get output?  Input.  Power goes in, power comes out.  You can't make power from no power.  Why would you blow up a cap on purpose?  Ever tested a cap?  They dont stabalize anything but the profit margin of the vendor.
> [snapback]2850935[/snapback]​*





You are cluless, maybe you should sit down and have a talk with someone like Richard Clark. I presonally havent been into car audio for 8 years now, but back in the 90's thats what I did for a living, I had some very nice audio systems back then, these days I dont care for it, most of the "experts" in the industry are fucking annoying know it alls.


But, saying a cap is not needed is a pretty uneducated statement, I mean, take a simple system, add a cap then remove it, big difference.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by OrangeCounty58_@Mar 14 2005, 10:21 PM
> *yes there is output and input, you are using amplifiers correct? otherwise youd call it a buffer and not an amplifier. power goes in and out? supply current goes in, and from that power is produce with a load (the speakers). that is why a battery is rated in Amps. you see caps in all types of circuits. main usaage is to improve power factor,  and prolong the life of your power supply (batteries). i can go on about boring control, power and instrumentation theory but kind of pointless. also that test doesnt show a valid response. not real world, a bunch of tones. the real world is a complex place.
> 
> you see a lot of things when you install awhile, including debates on what works or how to do things. from my experience their are systems thar are shitty, systems that are decent and systems that are "Sound". and im speaking electrically stable. cant remember how many times a simple cap has fixed these electrical problems, and sometimes even an alt upgrade. but the last thing we did was connect another battery, unless it was something like a VLX-400  or something huge. then we just dedicated its own power supply, since their is always a limit on what you can do with a car.
> ...


What is music? It's a bunch of tones. All tests done were done in a car, thats real world. Caps are used interally yes, how much current is put on those circuits? How much capacitance do those circuits have? You've never seen a cap fix an electrical problem. The battery and the alternator fixed the electrical problem. You wont get into details because you can't back it up. I've done real world testing on amps. Most class D amps that advertise "90% efficient" dont tell you that they are doing that at 4 ohms instead of 1 that its rated for. Guess what, I've owned a 1 ohm class a/b amp that was rated for 69% efficiency being 94% efficient at 4 ohms. That a/b is just as efficient as most class D's. Do you know what CAD is? You can't demonstrate efficiency with a CAD drawing.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 10:34 PM
> *You are cluless, maybe you should sit down and have a talk with someone like Richard Clark.  I presonally havent been into car audio for 8 years now, but back in the 90's thats what I did for a living, I had some very nice audio systems back then, these days I dont care for it, most of the "experts" in the industry are fucking annoying know it alls.
> But, saying a cap is not needed is a pretty uneducated statement, I mean, take a simple system, add a cap then remove it, big difference.
> [snapback]2851134[/snapback]​*


So you wanna talk Richard Clark? I'm glad you said that.

http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf

There you go, a real world cap test, dont by Richard Clark. His test concludes the cap had lower voltage. What hero do you have now?


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

richard clark, cool guy. probably still has the GN he bought off Todd up in his garage. reminds me of the disscusion about that stupid stinger product used to "load down" the output. also about how the same twisted pair from one company was "cleaner" sounding or how one hundred watt amp was "cleaner" then another 100 watt amp, just in reverse. again, always going to be these types of dicsussions, but not everyone at times understands. like i said i can break off the math, the theory, but doesnt mean shit until you experience it. im no non sense, if something dont work its gone. a 10 dollar mark up on a cap or 25 on a bigger one is not going to break any shop. if they blew up regularly, insurance would be through the roof and law suits galore. ive only seen a couple of law suits in my days, usually due to the company not doing proper QA, such as when ALpine started making alarms and didnt test their flagship model, it would tend to latch instead of pulsing and burn the hell out of somethings, sometimes entire trunks. damn it Jason you got me going back in the day and shit.


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

i didnt liike a few of RC's (yes pun for the electrical nerds) tests. he was biased on a couple. not denying the test data, only stating the real world results for me are different.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 14 2005, 10:38 PM
> *So you wanna talk Richard Clark?  I'm glad you said that.
> 
> http://www.welcometotheden.8k.com/caraudio/Captest.pdf
> ...




yeah, and..........................


sorry, I dont have hero's in car audio, and dont be a smart ass about it either.


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 14 2005, 08:36 PM
> *What is music?  It's a bunch of tones.  All tests done were done in a car, thats real world.  Caps are used interally yes, how much current is put on those circuits?  How much capacitance do those circuits have?  You've never seen a cap fix an electrical problem.  The battery and the alternator fixed the electrical problem.  You wont get into details because you can't back it up.  I've done real world testing on amps.  Most class D amps that advertise "90% efficient" dont tell you that they are doing that at 4 ohms instead of 1 that its rated for.  Guess what, I've owned a 1 ohm class a/b amp that was rated for 69% efficiency being 94% efficient at 4 ohms.  That a/b is just as efficient as most class D's.  Do you know what CAD is?  You can't demonstrate efficiency with a CAD drawing.
> [snapback]2851156[/snapback]​*



the cad drawings i was talking about were to demonstrate the differences between how they operate. i wont go into detail, because who the hell cares? think people on LIL give a real shit? no they just want to know how to make whatever it is worlk. going to go into math/ theory and my personal research? funny when people dont know what you know or who you know  again, read my signature if you missed it.

ps. if you know a lot of car audio history, youd also know RC hasnt been the most ethical technical writer. again, not disputing his results. oh and im over it


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 10:44 PM
> *yeah, and..........................
> sorry, I dont have hero's in car audio, and dont be a smart ass about it either.
> [snapback]2851227[/snapback]​*


Ok... Let's see here...

Ibanender said...
"In some cases your voltage can actually be LOWER by using a cap"

Then you said...
"You are cluless, maybe you should sit down and have a talk with someone like Richard Clark"

Then Ibanender gives you a real world test done by said Richard Clark
concluding lower voltage using the capacitor...

Thus, proving what he said to be fact against what Richard Clark concluded,
who you said he needs to talk with...

How is that being a smart ass?

Catching you with your pants down isn't being a smart ass, it's being smart...


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Brahma Brian_@Mar 14 2005, 10:55 PM
> *Ok... Let's see here...
> 
> Ibanender said...
> ...




well, obviously, you are just one of the many "know it alls" in the audio world.



either way, I have had systems with and without caps, and one without made my headlights dim, and also caused my system to lose power, either way, both of you guys are probably just kids, and I dont care to argue with you.


I only mess with lowriders, not systems, but either way, I know a cap will benefit a system.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:00 PM
> *well, obviously, you are just one of the many "know it alls" in the audio world.
> either way, I have had systems with and without caps, and one without made my headlights dim, and also caused my system to lose power, either way, both of you guys are probably just kids, and I dont care to argue with you.
> I only mess with lowriders, not systems, but either way, I know a cap will benefit a system.
> [snapback]2851370[/snapback]​*


well, obviously, you are just one of the many "know it alls" in the audio world.

*I know a lot, no one "knows it all", but I do know when someone inserts a foot in the mouth and I called you on it, 
now you are reaching for ways to discredit me...*

either way, I have had systems with and without caps, and one without made my headlights dim, and also caused my system to lose power, either way, 

*So, what is your arguement then, or did you just come here to stir the shit?*

both of you guys are probably just kids, and I dont care to argue with you.

*Neither of us are kids, far from it actually...
If you don't care to argue, why are you here? 
Because that's all you have done thus far is argue...*

I only mess with lowriders, not systems, but either way, I know a cap will benefit a system.

*If you don't mess with systems, again the question is, why are you here?
Saying you "know a cap will benefit a system" is like saying, 
"I know a band-aid will heal the cut on your finger",
when the fact is, the band-aid can hold in moisture and cause infection...
In this case the band-aid only complicated the problem, 
just like capacitors do very often...*


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## NDMstang65 (Oct 17, 2004)

Put yet another parasitic load to an already crippled electrical system...

Makes perfect sense to me


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

:roflmao: :roflmao:


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## NDMstang65 (Oct 17, 2004)

why the laughing?

or did you just suddenly realize your true mentality?


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## OrangeCounty58 (Apr 23, 2002)

yes someone is right, no one knows it all. but i would say especially RC, i wouldnt hold the words he says in the biblical sense. do a google groups search, youll get a kick. i had already seen his paper and couner arguements. 

hmm parassitic, thats odd. 

damn now i really am over it. adios javascript:ShowHide('qr_open','qr_closed');
Fast Reply


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## NDMstang65 (Oct 17, 2004)

wtf are you talking about?


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by NDMstang65_@Mar 14 2005, 11:22 PM
> *why the laughing?
> 
> or did you just suddenly realize your true mentality?
> [snapback]2851436[/snapback]​*




no, I realize car audio sucks, and I should never post here, I will stick to lowriding and building classic cars.



now I remember why I hate going to all the local stereo shops, nothing but nerdy pricks.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

show us a high powered audio system that performs with no caps.


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## weasle421 (Feb 28, 2005)

the only nerdy prick i see is you and orange county.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:31 PM
> *show us a high powered audio system that performs with no caps.
> [snapback]2851462[/snapback]​*


Thats easy enough...
Just wait for it...


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by weasle421_@Mar 14 2005, 11:33 PM
> *the only nerdy prick i see is you and orange county.
> [snapback]2851468[/snapback]​*



wow, and its only your first post, where you from?????????????







just another fake name.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:34 PM
> *wow, and its only your first post, where you from?????????????
> just another fake name.
> [snapback]2851472[/snapback]​*


He regestered last month if you notice...


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## weasle421 (Feb 28, 2005)

actually its not just saw a opertunity, i have been readung in here for a while now and know enough about car sterio to call you a DUMBASS!!!


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## NDMstang65 (Oct 17, 2004)

Good friend of mine's van...no caps...where are they at...all i see is 70 batteries?








Count them...yes that is 12 JBL/Crown A6000GTi's


















Van at world finals









Us.









Not a single cap?...how could that be?


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:31 PM
> *show us a high powered audio system that performs with no caps.
> [snapback]2851462[/snapback]​*


Did you see it?
Look up, you can't miss it... :biggrin:

72,000 watts "high powered" enough for you?


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by weasle421_@Mar 14 2005, 11:37 PM
> *actually its not just saw a opertunity, i have been readung in here for a while now and know enough about car sterio to call you a DUMBASS!!!
> [snapback]2851483[/snapback]​*



goddamn, you cant spell, and you call me a dumbass


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:49 PM
> *goddamn, you cant spell, and you call me a dumbass
> [snapback]2851550[/snapback]​*


First he corrects your spelling, next he will be insulting "yo mama"...
Better watch out for this guy, he's brutal! :uh: 

And he has two feet inserted into the back of his mouth...


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## 1ofaknd (May 31, 2003)

lot's of ownage happening in here...quite a spectacle!


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by 1ofaknd_@Mar 14 2005, 11:55 PM
> *lot's of ownage happening in here...quite a spectacle!
> [snapback]2851588[/snapback]​*


Hellz yeah! 
Where you been, you coulda been helpin' out!
Lotsa great ownage on this thread indeed...


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## weasle421 (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:49 PM
> *goddamn, you cant spell, and you call me a dumbass
> [snapback]2851550[/snapback]​*



as for the spelling, i'm on here for entertainment and info, not a teaching lesson and everyone got the point YOU ARE A DUMBASS.

Because you can't undestand the information that has been shown to you is why.


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## 1ofaknd (May 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Brahma Brian_@Mar 14 2005, 11:56 PM
> *Hellz yeah!
> Where you been, you coulda been helpin' out!
> Lotsa great ownage on this thread indeed...
> [snapback]2851595[/snapback]​*


shit..i didn't notice till now! lmao

oh yea..i wear a cap. :biggrin:


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## weasle421 (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:49 PM
> *goddamn, you cant spell, and you call me a dumbass
> [snapback]2851550[/snapback]​*



as for the spelling, i'm on here for entertainment and info, not a teaching lesson and everyone got the point YOU ARE A DUMBASS.

Because you can't undestand the information that has been shown to you is why.


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## weasle421 (Feb 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:49 PM
> *goddamn, you cant spell, and you call me a dumbass
> [snapback]2851550[/snapback]​*




sometimes i don't know why i even bother


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## k gee™ (Jul 29, 2001)

damn , see what you started rod? :biggrin:


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:00 PM
> *well, obviously, you are just one of the many "know it alls" in the audio world.
> either way, I have had systems with and without caps, and one without made my headlights dim, and also caused my system to lose power, either way, both of you guys are probably just kids, and I dont care to argue with you.
> I only mess with lowriders, not systems, but either way, I know a cap will benefit a system.
> [snapback]2851370[/snapback]​*


That's right, you DONT mess with systems, I do. I don't go makin claims about low riders, because I dont mess with hoopties.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Notorious76_@Mar 14 2005, 11:34 PM
> *wow, and its only your first post, where you from?????????????
> just another fake name.
> [snapback]2851472[/snapback]​*


Looking at his IP and the fact that it doesnt match anybody elses says you're making excuses for your own mistake again.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

I go away for the night and everybody who thought they had something got served. Doesn't it suck to get owned by your own attempt at owning? Don't play with the bull, you'll get the horns.

BTW, if you want to see more high end systems without caps, go to Spring Break Nationals in Daytona FL the first of April. I'll be glad to point out some of the worlds best sounding and loudest cars, over 200 that don't have caps.


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