# pioneer premier



## gankdefyer (May 17, 2002)

a friend of mine has a ts-w2000spl, i put it in a 2.2 cu. ft. box, sounds baeutiful. The port is 2.25*5.75 and i think 8"L or so ...

i NEVER heard anything this nice sounding (and a hell of a low end) for a 100$

he runs a rockford fosgate 500bd - & doesn't need any more power

funny thing is I had 2 of the ts-w5000spl subs (12" 70lbs) two ORION 2400 watt amps -they were WAY to loud, took them out, sold the car to the friend with the pioneer premier 12

I left an ALUMAPRO 5farad cap with a 200 amp alternator, and an optima red top in the car I sold to him, so now he has a huge power supply and runs 1 12 w/500 watts
he has MB Quart componets and a fosgate 4ch

long story short: pioneer premier ts-w2000 is where its at

if you're hella bass hungry get a pioneer premier ts-w5000spl and atleast 2000 watts

be sure you know how to build a good box...

Im pretty sure pioneer holds the world record with 5 of those premier 5000 series 12s


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## gankdefyer (May 17, 2002)

173dBs


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by gankdefyer_@Mar 14 2005, 03:20 AM
> *173dBs
> [snapback]2847908[/snapback]​*


and?


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Mar 14 2005, 04:29 AM
> *and?
> [snapback]2847938[/snapback]​*


And not in his car or any car that equipment is in except this one with 13 of them and 52 amps, and an extreme interior with 3" thick windows.


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## SD*ANGELA*CALI (Apr 7, 2004)

thanks


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## ohioswanga (Jan 25, 2005)

Has anyone else had experience with these subs??


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

aight, thats it, i'm makin the doors on my f150 do that....lol


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## gankdefyer (May 17, 2002)

iban was close but, there are 9 of the pioneer premier subs in that vehicle. And yes, they're talkin 173.3 dB.
















36 amps 72 batteries 115,200 Watts of power.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by gankdefyer_@Mar 16 2005, 01:56 AM
> *iban was close but, there are 9 of the pioneer premier subs in that vehicle.    And yes, they're talkin 173.3 dB.
> 
> 
> ...


Thats the old system, try again. What I posted is current equipment up till the new vehicle he's building that you dont know about. His highest score was actually a 174 something. I"m glad you now think those are the best thing ever since they are in an application that isn't practical or you'd ever see close to yourself. I've built vehicles like those and street beaters, totally different world. You can put ANYTHING in a vehicle like that and it'll break a 170.


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## ohioswanga (Jan 25, 2005)

what do they use to insulate a vehicle like that. When i went to a db drag comp there was an american bass station wagon that looked like the doors were insulated with cement.(this vehicle is currently at 175db)


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ohioswanga_@Mar 16 2005, 01:00 PM
> *what do they use to insulate a vehicle like that. When i went to a db drag comp there was an american bass station wagon that looked like the doors were insulated with cement.(this vehicle is currently at 175db)
> [snapback]2858916[/snapback]​*


currently at 175 db's maybe on a old mic, but not on the new tl mic, normally they use resin, its the lightest material compared to using cemet to stiffen up the doors.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Mar 16 2005, 02:31 PM
> *currently at 175 db's maybe on a old mic, but not on the new tl mic, normally they use resin, its the lightest material compared to using cemet to stiffen up the doors.
> [snapback]2859062[/snapback]​*


Um, that would be on the current Term Lab sensor...
Termpro is DB Drag and they use Term Lab sensors...
http://www.termpro.com/
I'm not sure on that car, but I would bet the doors are filled with concrete...
Ibanender would know for sure because he was there last year and knows the owner...
Most true SPL vehicles weigh around 10,000 pounds or sometimes more, normally weight isn't an issue...


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ohioswanga_@Mar 16 2005, 02:00 PM
> *what do they use to insulate a vehicle like that. When i went to a db drag comp there was an american bass station wagon that looked like the doors were insulated with cement.(this vehicle is currently at 175db)
> [snapback]2858916[/snapback]​*


It was a 174.4, but thanks for playing. The sub wasn't actually an American Bass it just had an American Bass dust cap on it, and they had MTX amps in the car too. It was on a Termlab sensor. That vehicle is all about the interior. Thats the thing with those vehicles, the interior is what makes it loud, not so much the box.

Typically they are insulated with cement, expanding foam packed very tightly, or a mix of resin and sand.


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## ohioswanga (Jan 25, 2005)

I saw it when they had finals in cleveland but it was a black wagon then, and it only hit 173. one of the installers for american bass told me that it was one 18" sub, im not sure what brand.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by ohioswanga_@Mar 17 2005, 01:42 AM
> *I saw it when they had finals in cleveland but it was a black wagon then, and it only hit 173. one of the installers for american bass told me that it was one 18" sub, im not sure what brand.
> [snapback]2861780[/snapback]​*


It was a single 18, but again, its the interior that makes it loud.


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## gankdefyer (May 17, 2002)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 16 2005, 04:39 PM
> *Thats the old system, try again.  What I posted is current equipment up till the new vehicle he's building that you dont know about.  His highest score was actually a 174 something.  I"m glad you now think those are the best thing ever since they are in an application that isn't practical or you'd ever see close to yourself.  I've built vehicles like those and street beaters, totally different world.  You can put ANYTHING in a vehicle like that and it'll break a 170.
> [snapback]2857930[/snapback]​*


Whats up your ass? Are you dead phlow- or something? Hes the only person that acts like you.

Sorry I didn't know about his(the guy from edge audio[i think it is] ) top secret plans.

"best thing ever"

what is it that you're talking about.
I started this topic to express my feeling about the Pioneer Premier ts-w2000(&5000)spl subs.

A friend of mine has a 2000 and I have a 5000 series, I like them both. Whats impractical about that. They function, sound good, and fit pretty much any vehicle.

Im not trying to pick any fights, I just don't understand what saying.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by gankdefyer_@Mar 18 2005, 03:11 AM
> *Whats up your ass?  Are you dead phlow- or something?  Hes the only person that acts like you.
> 
> Sorry I didn't know about his(the guy from edge audio[i think it is] ) top secret plans.
> ...


You were making them out to sound like something they aren't, I was merely setting that straight. You post something like you did, bunch of people see that and go buy 1 12 and go "why isn't this loud, I should be doing 170's".


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 18 2005, 09:14 AM
> *You were making them out to sound like something they aren't, I was merely setting that straight.  You post something like you did, bunch of people see that and go buy 1 12 and go "why isn't this loud, I should be doing 170's".
> [snapback]2868089[/snapback]​*


they can do 170's if they go and buy a radioshack db meter....lol


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Mar 18 2005, 02:40 PM
> *they can do 170's if they go and buy a radioshack db meter....lol
> [snapback]2869449[/snapback]​*


Those only read to 130


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 19 2005, 08:24 AM
> *Those only read to 130
> [snapback]2872295[/snapback]​*


well, 129 something, but still, the guy will think, hey it max's this out, so it must be much much louder.....lol


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## chart16 (Mar 20, 2005)

I have the TS-W5000SPl sitting in a 2 1/4 cu ft enclosure with a 16 cu in port so tuned to 40Hz. Pushing this sub i have an Orion Xtreme Pro 2400. Plenty of power to push it. 

My delema is this. I'm looking for specifications that would increase the dbs to at least in the 140 range. AS this enclosure is set to the perameters set forth by pioneer it won't exceed 120 dbs. In my old enclosure i was pushing 132.7 dbs but it was too large to put in the trunk of my car and it only was barely able to sit in there. I'm wondering if anyone has spedifications that would allow for a SPL ported enclosure possibly with an angled back. 

Thanks!!!


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 19 2005, 11:19 PM
> *I have the TS-W5000SPl sitting in a 2 1/4 cu ft enclosure with a 16 cu in port so tuned to 40Hz.  Pushing this sub i have an Orion Xtreme Pro 2400.  Plenty of power to push it.
> 
> My delema is this.  I'm looking for specifications that would increase the dbs to at least in the 140 range.  AS this enclosure is set to the perameters set forth by pioneer it won't exceed 120 dbs.  In my old enclosure i was pushing 132.7 dbs but it was too large to put in the trunk of my car and it only was barely able to sit in there.  I'm wondering if anyone has spedifications that would allow for a SPL ported enclosure possibly with an angled back.
> ...


If it wont do over 120, you probably have the coils wired out of phase.


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## chart16 (Mar 20, 2005)

the sub is a dual 4 ohm voice coil and it's wired in parallel to bring it down to 2 ohms. It's not the sub. it can do better like i said i hit 132 dbs in a bandpass enclosure. For just a simple ported enclosure set at 2 1/2 cu ft and tuned to 40Hz it's not suppose to do any higher than 120dbs however it can do higher just in a different design of enclosure.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 22 2005, 10:54 AM
> *the sub is a dual 4 ohm voice coil and it's wired in parallel to bring it down to 2 ohms.  It's not the sub.  it can do better like i said i hit 132 dbs in a bandpass enclosure.  For just a simple ported enclosure set at 2 1/2 cu ft and tuned to 40Hz it's not suppose to do any higher than 120dbs however it can do higher just in a different design of enclosure.
> [snapback]2888177[/snapback]​*


sounds more like you built a crappy ported box, because ported is considerably louder than bandpass in ANY application.


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 22 2005, 11:54 AM
> *the sub is a dual 4 ohm voice coil and it's wired in parallel to bring it down to 2 ohms.  It's not the sub.  it can do better like i said i hit 132 dbs in a bandpass enclosure.  For just a simple ported enclosure set at 2 1/2 cu ft and tuned to 40Hz it's not suppose to do any higher than 120dbs however it can do higher just in a different design of enclosure.
> [snapback]2888177[/snapback]​*


Where are you getting these numbers? Are you actually building these boxes and getting them metered? What do you mean its not supposed to do over 120 dB? I've made a pair of 6x9's on 150 watts do a 140. That sub is very capable of doing a 130, even in a not so great installation. 

You say its wired in parallel, but explain how exactly its wired. Like, what wires go to what pos and what neg.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ibanender_@Mar 22 2005, 12:08 PM
> *Where are you getting these numbers?  Are you actually building these boxes and getting them metered?  What do you mean its not supposed to do over 120 dB?  I've made a pair of 6x9's on 150 watts do a 140.  That sub is very capable of doing a 130, even in a not so great installation.
> [snapback]2888601[/snapback]​*


that sub's capable of doing a 130 free air....lol


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## chart16 (Mar 20, 2005)

someones full of it especially on a pair of 6X9s that hit 140dbs, that's impossible i don't care who you are.... I think i know a little bit about this... thank you for insulting my inteligance by the way! 

A parallel hook up is both positive terminals connected together as well as both negative terminals connected together. I know the difference between parallel, multi parallel, series, ect... 

The 120dbs in a ported is just a number i got through premier. So i haven't rated that set up but i can feel the difference. The 132dbs is what was measured by me. The enclosure itself wasn't built by me but a company called classic audio of which I was present when it was built. It's NOT the enclosure! Just ask yourself this question... What is the difference between the depth of a port and the air space in the enclosure? I know the diffence. I'm just asking a SIMPLE question and that is on 'design' when it comes to and enclosure that would give me 145dbs... 

The sub hits hard as hell, it even broke 2 of my window regulators but still only measured at 132dbs. I even increased the dbs through a crossover of which i have by 10dbs but with the crossover it gave me the 132. So in other words i'm going from the 7th order bandpass enclosure to a ported enclosure tuned to 40Hz which is roughly around 16 cu in. port with a 4 sq in' port size so do the math on the depth... Tell me this doesn't seem right for a sub this size to be in a box that is barely bigger than 2 cu' ft??? I have one 15' in a 4.5 cu ft box ported that WILL hit 145 easily but that sub doesn't even have the same capabilities as the primier does. So I'm confused. 

Here are the specs so look for yourself...

Model No SRP Introduction Date Description
TSW5000SPL "TS-W5000SPL
Subwoofer Specifications & Enclosure Design
Dia. 12 in.
Z 8.0 / 2.0 ohm
Re 6.0 / 1.5 ohm
Zmax 161.04 / TBD ohm
fs 32.2 Hz
Qms 8.599
Qes 0.332
Qts 0.320
Vas 30.92 Liters
1.092 ft3
Sd 0.0585 m2
0.630 ft2
BL 37.38 / TBD Tm
Cms 6.370x10-5 m/N
Mms 384.42 g
Rms 9.010 Ns/m
Mg. Wt 9,100 g
320 oz
VC dia. 3.0 in.
76 mm
Hvc 1.969 in.
50 mm
Hag 1.181 in.
30 mm
Xmax 0.39 in.
10.0 mm
Levc 6.980 / TBD mH
Displ. 0.215 ft3
6.1 Liters
SPL 89 dB/W
Power (nom) 2000 Watts
Power (max) 5000 Watts
T/S PARAMETERS
Enciosure
Type
Seald
Volume
Ported
Volume
Port
Length
Sealed 1.5 ft3 --- ---
Ported --- TBD TBD
Bandpass TBD TBD TBD
RECOMMENDED ENCLOSURES
Input: 2000W"


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 22 2005, 08:58 PM
> *someones full of it especially on a pair of 6X9s that hit 140dbs, that's impossible i don't care who you are....  I think i know a little bit about this...  thank you for insulting my inteligance by the way!
> 
> A parallel hook up is both positive terminals connected together as well as both negative terminals connected together.  I know the difference between parallel, multi parallel, series, ect...
> ...


Since you have 4 posts, I'll go ahead and let ya know you are getting uppity with the wrong person.

I took two 6x9's, in 3 cu. ft. ported and did a 140. Those who have been here a while know its possible. Just because YOU can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. I never discount the obvious, regardless of knowledge, people make mistakes.

The 120 dB given to you from Pioneer is an in-lab number, not in car. Cabin gain of the car can easily yield 15-20 dB. _"What is the difference between the depth of a port and the air space in the enclosure?"_ If that made sense I'd answer. There is no way to say "this box will do 145 dB" when we aren't in your car installing it, we aren't setting it up, we dont know which meter you would be using, or what frequency you would be playing. You broke 2 window regulators because your car is a POS, not because its loud. A crossover is not capable of boosting anything, it filters frequencies. You may have used a 10 dB boost on a bass boost, which boosts only 1 frequency.

A box is for a woofer, every box will work differently for every woofer. Just because its big and expensive doesn't mean it needs a big box. Just go by the manufacturer specs and be done. If you don't know how to design one yourself, its not worth the hassle of screwing it up and blaming it on everything but your design.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

btw, 140 db's with 2 6x9's in a honda crx is very possible, you really need to do more research before you open your mouth, gonna get a bad reputation around here, and many a people are gonna hate you, stop actin like a know it all.


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## chart16 (Mar 20, 2005)

I’m not trying to get uppity with anyone but my inelegance was insulted in a previous post. The crossover gave me the 10db boost yes and that’s what I was trying to get at also. I’m sorry for not explaining it any farther. As for the 120dbs yes it was a number given by the manufacturer and I know sitting in a vehicle the db rating will change. The point I was getting at I could “feel” the difference. It’s not that big of a difference but none the less a difference. I learned a lot by the sub because it is different. My car isn’t a POS. It’s a 2001! No you aren’t here and no I’m not there to see what you’ve done but I didn’t criticize or challenge their intellect until someone pulled it on me. I mean no disrespect to anyone but the least someone could have done is just except certain truths. 

“You say it’s wired in parallel, but explain how exactly it’s wired. Like what wires go to what pos and what neg.” Far as I’m concerned that is total disrespect towards me. 

On the question I had asked it was suppose to be a reference towards the idea that the ports is set to a certain frequency were at the box is set for the air movement but never mind on that. I was just saying I’m not stupid because someone thought I was obviously. 

Anyways I am content with the current setup that I have but I was wondering if anyone had any previous experience with these subs that what amount of air space or setup would I have to attain to get it to that. Another thing is I can’t blame it on my design because it’s NOT my design. It’s Premiers design. It is set to the exact parameters of the manufacturer.

Again like you said I'm not there and you're not here so no once really knows.


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## 1ofaknd (May 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 22 2005, 11:16 PM
> *so no once really knows.
> [snapback]2891747[/snapback]​*


you fuckin got that right


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

whats funny, is the perameters they gave you for that "bandpass" is the fact it's not designed for any specific vehicle, more than likely its designed for about the space found in a mini van, lil bigger than that maybe, ever notice how house box's are much bigger?


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## ibanender (Jan 31, 2004)

> _Originally posted by chart16_@Mar 22 2005, 11:16 PM
> *I’m not trying to get uppity with anyone but my inelegance was insulted in a previous post.  The crossover gave me the 10db boost yes and that’s what I was trying to get at also.  I’m sorry for not explaining it any farther.  As for the 120dbs yes it was a number given by the manufacturer and I know sitting in a vehicle the db rating will change.  The point I was getting at I could “feel” the difference.  It’s not that big of a difference but none the less a difference.  I learned a lot by the sub because it is different.  My car isn’t a POS.  It’s a 2001!  No you aren’t here and no I’m not there to see what you’ve done but I didn’t criticize or challenge their intellect until someone pulled it on me.  I mean no disrespect to anyone but the least someone could have done is just except certain truths.
> 
> “You say it’s wired in parallel, but explain how exactly it’s wired. Like what wires go to what pos and what neg.” Far as I’m concerned that is total disrespect towards me.
> ...



A crossover DOES NOT give you any boost, period. You should be insulted, you firmly believe things like a crossover boosting things. A crossover is a filter, nothing more, nothing less. If you know it will be louder in a car, why did you say it will only do 120 dB and complain about it? Just because your car is a 2001 doesn't make it not a POS. Anybody can make any car a POS. If your window regulators are breaking already, its a POS.

Since you know everything, why don't you just build the ported box and get it metered and tell us how loud it is. You obviously wont listen to anybody else.


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