# 18 vs 15



## doe7 (Oct 6, 2009)

What's tha difference between an 18 in sub and a 15 will hit harder or jus louder. I like to listen to a lot of rap. And it will be goin into a navigator.


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## hearse (Oct 20, 2005)

i have a 18 in a expedition. one big factor to take into consideration is how much space you wanna give up


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

all things being equal the 18 will be louder and play lower than the 15


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## My63impala (Feb 24, 2009)

18 is more cone area so will hit lower like pitbull said


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## doe7 (Oct 6, 2009)

will 18's make different notes like 15's or 12's


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## My63impala (Feb 24, 2009)

different notes am not sure you you mean but a 18 has more cone area witch gives it more air movement and will give a lower hit.Also dont forget the biggest factor the box if you really want to hit the low you can go with a ported box aero or slot ported tuned around 30 to 32hz. Make sure to give the sub the proper cubic feet a 15 is normally around 3 to 4 cubic feet


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## -BIG NIKO- (Jun 20, 2009)

_LOUD and HIT is different.. and of course the 18 is louder because its bigger and it can flex more... I think the 15 can be both LOUD and HIT.. But any sub can be LOUD and HIT it all depends on what your setup is for the subs.. _


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

what if you want it to thump or slam? what should i do


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

if you have a good enough 18 and a very good amplifier behind it, it will "hit" as good as a 12 or 10...just because the only 18's someones ever heard are sloppy, doesn't mean they can't hit all the base notes like any other sub....there is no honest difference other then needing more power for an 18.


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## DETACHED (Mar 13, 2006)

best sub i ever had was notice i said SUB, not subs was a kicker solo bariq L7 15" 6ft cu box


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!!


OKAY YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE WOULD BE THAT IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE ALOT OF AIR SPACE, I.E. MORE ROOM IN THE BACK BEING TAKEN UP. SMALL BOX SIZE FOR A SINGLE 18 MIGHT BE 3.0 CU FT, UPWARDS TO 5.0 C.U. FT. 

THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE COMES IN FREQUENCY, ABOUT A 7 HZ ON THE LOW END, AND ABOUT 400 HZ ON THE HIGH END. A TYPICAL 15" WILL RANCE FROM 25 HZ TO 500 HZ. A TYPICAL 18" WILL RANGE FROM 18 HZ TO 100 HZ. THAT IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THE 18" IS NOT GOING TO PLAY ANY OF THE HIGHER FREQUENCIES ASSOCIATED WITH MID WOOFER LEVEL. TYPICALLY THIS IS CALLED CROSSOVER. I COULD GO ON FOREVER WITH THIS, BUT WHAT IT ALL COMES DOWN TO IS THAT THE SUB WILL NOT PLAY HIGHER FREQUENCY, AND WILL HIT DEEPER BECAUSE OF THAT.


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## the509509pimp (Oct 7, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 12 2009, 07:56 AM~15330282
> *YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME!!!!
> OKAY YOUR BIGGEST ISSUE WOULD BE THAT IT IS GOING TO REQUIRE ALOT OF AIR SPACE, I.E. MORE ROOM IN THE BACK BEING TAKEN UP.  SMALL BOX SIZE FOR A SINGLE 18 MIGHT BE 3.0 CU FT, UPWARDS TO 5.0 C.U. FT.
> 
> ...


WELL SAID INDEED


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

its a very common misconception that 18s hit lower than 15s or 12s etc.

It all depends on the woofer and most of all depends on the enclosure.

There are high quality 18s out there that have better sound quality than almost all the 10s made.

And consequently there are 10s out there that hammer harder and lower than 18s.

So it all depends what particular sub you're using.

If its going into a navigator then you should have enough room for a proper ported or bandpass box for an 18 so id go that route to get as much cone area as possible. But dont go with a cheap crappy sub just to get the size of an 18. Cone area isnt everything. Motor strength, coil cooling and suspension design are far more important than cone area.


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## gottie (Dec 11, 2008)

ITS ALL ABOUT 18'S


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## gottie (Dec 11, 2008)




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## hearse (Oct 20, 2005)

now why is both sub and port back? thought suvs were sub up port back


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## gottie (Dec 11, 2008)

> _Originally posted by hearse_@Oct 19 2009, 06:03 PM~15405561
> *now why is both sub and port back? thought suvs were sub up port back
> *


 :dunno: DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ONLY ONE WAY


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 18 2009, 10:00 PM~15395747
> *its a very common misconception that 18s hit lower than 15s or 12s etc.
> 
> It all depends on the woofer and most of all depends on the enclosure.
> ...


STOP IT!!!!!!  

SO YOU ARE SAYING IF YOU HAVE..HMMMM A 10" KICKER SUB, AND THE SAME MODEL KICKER 18, THAT THE 10 IS GONNA HAMMER LOWER. AHHH NO

WHEN YOU START MAKING CLAIMS LIKE THAT, YOU CONFUSE PEOPLE. NOW IF YOU HAVE A BULLSHIT 18, AND YOU HAVE XXX 10" SUB, YEAH THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. BUT THE SAME MODEL SUB, YET DIFFERENT SIZE 10 IS NOT GOING TO PLAY LOWER OR HAMMER HARDER.

MAKING COMPARISON LIKE YOU DID IS THAT IS LIKE TRYING TO COMPARE A YUGO TO A MAYBACH BENZ.


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

If I have enough space I run 18's. BTL 18's hit harder then BTL 15's when the correct enclosure with the correct power.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by hearse+Oct 19 2009, 06:03 PM~15405561-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing about what Ive said is wrong lol. Im saying the same thing as you are in a way.

Even having the same kicker 10 vs its bigger kicker 18 it isnt the "same" sub in many instances. If you look at the specs on a lot of subs the FS of the driver itself is higher for the large 15 and 18" woofers than the 12"s a lot of times.

Its more so in the enclosure than anyting. 

But the main reason people interperate large subs as hitting low is simply because they have more cone area to produce a higher SPL at the lower frequencies where the human ear is more sensitive.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by gottie_@Oct 19 2009, 05:55 PM~15405472
> *
> 
> 
> ...


nice setup but if you had woofer up and port back it would be louder since right now the port is directed back and because the box is so tall it blocks a lot of airflow forward.

 trust me i know my 2nd gen explorers


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 19 2009, 07:19 PM~15405768
> *STOP IT!!!!!!
> 
> SO YOU ARE SAYING IF YOU HAVE..HMMMM A 10" KICKER SUB, AND THE SAME MODEL KICKER 18, THAT THE 10 IS GONNA HAMMER LOWER.  AHHH NO
> ...


for some reason i didn't find anywhere in his post where he said the same model 10" will hammer lower then the same model 18".....

he never made a claim like this :roflmao: i think you should read a little better before ranting off, because not all 18's have the same hz range, nore do all 10's, 12's, or 15's for that matter, every sub is different(even if its made by the same company/model)


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 20 2009, 01:44 AM~15409920
> *for some reason i didn't find anywhere in his post where he said the same model 10" will hammer lower then the same model 18".....
> 
> he never made a claim like this :roflmao: i think you should read a little better before ranting off, because not all 18's have the same hz range, nore do all 10's, 12's, or 15's for that matter, every sub is different(even if its made by the same company/model)
> *


I KNOW YOU ARE NOT HERE TRYING TO CORRECT ANYONE...... :dunno: 

WHAT I MEANT IS YOU CAN NOT MAKE A BLANK STATEMENT LIKE THAT. BECAUSE SOMEONE AS YOURSELF WILL BELIEVE THAT. SHIT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON IT. AVI MAKES A 5" SUBWOOFER THAT OUTPLAYS MOST 10" SUBS. SO IF I WENT AND SAID A 5" SUB CAN HIT HARDER AND LOWER THEN A 10" SUB IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT FOR 5" SPEAKERS. 

AND THE CONCEPT THAT A 10" SUB CAN PLAY LOWER THEN A 18" SUB IS NOT PLAUSABLE. THERE IS INFORMATION THAT IS AT 22 HZ AND LOWER THAT A 10" SUB CAN NOT PLAY. IF YOU HAVE HAD A 12" SUB, AND YOU GET USE TO THAT, HEAR THAT, FEEL THE BASS ON CERTAIN TRACKS, THEN SWITCH TO A 10" SUB, AND YOU ARE LIKE UH WHERE DID THAT BASS NOTE GO, IT WENT BECAUSE THAT 10" CAN NOT PLAY INTO THE LOWER FREQUENCY. NOW OF COURSE THERE ARE 10" SUB THAT WILL OUTPERFOM A 18 INFERIOR SUB, BECAUSE OF HOW THE SUB IS BUILT.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 20 2009, 01:16 AM~15409699
> *every suv and setup are different...it all depends on your individual setup.  In my explorer at world finals in 2007 i was loudest sub up port back with 4 12s but the next year my enclosure was subs up ports to drivers side.  Although I should have tried three 10s to the passenger side and three up with ports to drivers side because i think that would have been louder.
> Nothing about what Ive said is wrong lol.  Im saying the same thing as you are in a way.
> 
> ...


MY POINT WAS THAT YOU CAN NOT JUST TOSS OUT THINGS LIKE THAT WITHOUT GIVING THEORIES. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. BUT THERE ARE ALOT OF NOVICES IN THIS TOPIC. ALOT COME IN HERE FOR ADVICE, SO YOU GOTTA BREAK IT DOWN......... :cheesy:


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 20 2009, 05:49 AM~15410552
> *I KNOW YOU ARE NOT HERE TRYING TO CORRECT ANYONE...... :dunno:
> 
> WHAT I MEANT IS YOU CAN NOT MAKE A BLANK STATEMENT LIKE THAT.  BECAUSE SOMEONE AS YOURSELF WILL BELIEVE THAT.  SHIT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON IT.  AVI MAKES A 5" SUBWOOFER THAT OUTPLAYS MOST 10" SUBS.  SO IF I WENT AND SAID A 5" SUB CAN HIT HARDER AND LOWER THEN A 10" SUB IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT FOR 5" SPEAKERS.
> ...


one subwoofer comes to mind that can play lower then 22 hz thats a 10" ever heard of image dynamics? idmax10....

here's another 10" that will play far lower then 22 hz
http://www.woofersetc.com/p6455/Ultimo-10-...t-Subwoofer.htm
and another
http://www.woofersetc.com/p6717/QES1020--C...n-Subwoofer.htm

all i'm saying is you can't generalize a subwoofer size just because half of them only play a certain hertz range, this is about there being a few high end subwoofers out there, that WILL outperform their larger counterparts from less reputable companies.

the system in my truck for example, i'm running 2 12" kicker cvr's, i had a friend running 2 12" l5's with a bigger amp in a camry, and i was hitting lower and louder, its not only the subwoofer, its the vehicle, the box, the amp, the wiring.....environment, environment, environment....you can never generalize anything with car audio other then the quality of equipment and even that....you get what you pay for.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by hearse_@Oct 19 2009, 08:03 PM~15405561
> *now why is both sub and port back? thought suvs were sub up port back
> *


that works very well for daily apps..... sub up port back works better in most cases though....


and no matter how u slice it with ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.... an 18 will play lower and louder than a 10 12 15 of the same line....


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## StreetFame (Apr 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 20 2009, 12:17 AM~15409710
> *nice setup but if you had woofer up and port back it would be louder since right now the port is directed back and because the box is so tall it blocks a lot of airflow forward.
> 
> trust me i know my 2nd gen explorers
> *


 :uh: UNTIL YOU HEAR IT THEN I'LL ACCEPT YOUR SUGGESTIONS :biggrin:


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## StreetFame (Apr 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by gottie_@Oct 19 2009, 06:55 PM~15405472
> *
> 
> 
> ...


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 20 2009, 04:49 AM~15410552
> *I KNOW YOU ARE NOT HERE TRYING TO CORRECT ANYONE...... :dunno:
> 
> WHAT I MEANT IS YOU CAN NOT MAKE A BLANK STATEMENT LIKE THAT.  BECAUSE SOMEONE AS YOURSELF WILL BELIEVE THAT.  SHIT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON IT.  AVI MAKES A 5" SUBWOOFER THAT OUTPLAYS MOST 10" SUBS.  SO IF I WENT AND SAID A 5" SUB CAN HIT HARDER AND LOWER THEN A 10" SUB IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT FOR 5" SPEAKERS.
> ...


I hope you're not serious LOL Did I actually read this correctly? Did you just say that no 10" sub in the world can play below 22hz? 

heres lesson #1 because apparently YOU are the noob lol 

A sub can play any frequency that it is sent from the amplifier. An 18" sub can play a 10khz tone. And an 8" sub can play a 2hz tone. Any speaker can play any tone. Speaker size has nothing to do with what signal is being sent to the speaker itself. Will an 18" sub play a 10khz tone loudly and effectively? Of course not but it will still play it providing the crossover hasnt cut off that frequency.



Now for the record...10s can hit just as low as 18s if their box is tuned accordingly. Why is this so difficult to understand? Not all 18s are designed to hit lows either. That doesnt make them an inferior woofer at all.

Think of it like an engine. You're basically saying a 454 makes more low end torque than a 350 because of its size advantage (just like the 18" sub vs the 10" sub)...when in reality the 350 could make more low end torque than the 454 if it was designed to make low end power or if the 454 was designed to make more top end horsepower. Its all in the enclosure that the woofer is in.


> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 20 2009, 06:48 AM~15411001
> *that works very well for daily apps..... sub up port back works better in most cases though....
> and no matter how u slice it with ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL.... an 18 will play lower and louder than a 10 12 15 of the same line....
> *


no ...not at all. Because all things in the same line of woofers are not equal. There are many many variables. Just look at the thiele small parameters of any given woofer lineup. The majority of woofers the FS of the driver does get slightly smaller and smaller as the size increases...but not always.

Look at a kicker solo X for example. A solo X 10 has an FS of 36.2hz yet the solo X 12 has a higher FS of 37.8 hz. Which means that the 10" solo X has an extremely minor advantage in playing a bit lower than the 12 does. However you would never even notice this if the 10 was in a box tuned to 40 hz and the 12 was in a box tuned to 30 hz..then it would appear as though the 12 hit lower.


> _Originally posted by StreetFame_@Oct 20 2009, 08:44 AM~15411803
> *:uh: UNTIL YOU HEAR IT THEN I'LL ACCEPT YOUR SUGGESTIONS  :biggrin:
> *


no need to take offense to my statement. Im simply trying to give a helpful hint. Its a proven fact that if you made your enclosure closer to the height of the window line (approximately 15" tall) and then lined the rear of the enclosure up with the back of the cargo hooks you would notice more output from your setup providing the box specs were the same.


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 20 2009, 08:40 PM~15416021
> *I hope you're not serious LOL  Did I actually read this correctly?  Did you just say that no 10" sub in the world can play below 22hz?
> 
> heres lesson #1 because apparently YOU are the noob lol
> ...


 :0 , where did you come from?


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 20 2009, 06:05 PM~15416274
> *:0 , where did you come from?
> *


been a lurker for a while. Always been into juiced cars since high school but have more of a cruiser/demo vehicle/bassracer at the moment.

Although I am a noob to the forum Im no noob when it comes to car audio. Some of the "theories" in this thread are absolutely hilarious. LOL


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

someone has poor reading comprehension....


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 20 2009, 07:40 PM~15416021
> *I hope you're not serious LOL  Did I actually read this correctly?  Did you just say that no 10" sub in the world can play below 22hz?
> 
> heres lesson #1 because apparently YOU are the noob lol
> ...


HEY MAN, I MEAN PLEASE JUST STFU. YOU ARE REALLY EMBARRISING YOURSELF AND TOTALLY JUST PULLING SHIT OUT YOUR OTHER END. JUST BY THE HIGHLIGHTED STATEMENT, YOU HAVE SHOWN THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FREQUENCY RESPONSE OF SPECIFIC SUBS. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU CAME FROM, BUT I MEAN COME ON MAN, LEAVE IT ALONE. 

WHOEVER GAVE YOU THAT INFO NEEDS TO HAVE THE SHIT SLAPPED OUT OF THEM..........MY .02


P.S. WOW I JUST READ THE REST OF WHA YOU WROTE......... :roflmao: :twak: :twak: :roflmao: 

:buttkick: :buttkick: :buttkick: :banghead: :buttkick: :buttkick:


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 21 2009, 08:27 AM~15421489
> *HEY MAN, I MEAN PLEASE JUST STFU. YOU ARE REALLY EMBARRISING YOURSELF AND TOTALLY JUST PULLING SHIT OUT YOUR OTHER END.  JUST BY THE HIGHLIGHTED STATEMENT, YOU HAVE SHOWN THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FREQUENCY RESPONSE OF SPECIFIC SUBS.    I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU CAME FROM, BUT I MEAN COME ON MAN, LEAVE IT ALONE.
> 
> WHOEVER GAVE YOU THAT INFO NEEDS TO HAVE THE SHIT SLAPPED OUT OF THEM..........MY .02
> ...


im not embarrassing myself at all...i am infact right here and you are wrong. i dont see how you think you can be right at all. Its been disproven for years and years that sub size means absolutely nothing as to how low/high the setup can play. Its all in the box.

Now you're calling me an idiot for saying a woofer could play a 2 hz tone because the frequency response graph says it cant ? lol Give your head a shake pal. The frequency response graph shows where it works best. They dont go all the way down to 0 hz because most music wont play that low and also because the human ear cannot hear below 20 hz. This doesnt mean the woofer wont play! LOL. The woofer or any speaker for that matter will play whatever frequency it is told to be the headunit/ amp.

If you or anyone still thinks Im wrong Ill simply prove it to you very easily.
Download NCH tone generator and burn a series of tones. Say 2 hz or 5 hz or 10 hz..whichever you want. Pop the cd in your deck and play it to your woofers...make sure the subsonic filter on your amp is off and have a look at what the woofer is doing. The woofer will be excurting a 5hz tone. It wont be loud or heavy bass because its too low for you to physically hear but it will certainly play. If it doesnt play then the subsonic on your deck or amp is still on and filtering that low of a frequency out. And now you have been proven wrong. This will work with any size speaker...even a 3.5" dash speaker will still play a 5 hz tone itll just be harder to see the little cone moving. 

SO now you have been proven wrong.

Im no noob when it comes to car audio. Ive built and helped build several world championship worthy SPL vehicles aswell as having my own company dealing primarily with high output enclosure building. Ive build almost all the loudest vehicles in western canada since 2005 and the car Im building right now will be another head tuner that will play hair tricks no problem.

If anyone has any questions regarding enclosure or system design feel free to PM me.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 01:57 AM~15431260
> *im not embarrassing myself at all...i am infact right here and you are wrong.  i dont see how you think you can be right at all.  Its been disproven for years and years that sub size means absolutely nothing as to how low/high the setup can play.  Its all in the box.
> 
> Now you're calling me an idiot for saying a woofer could play a 2 hz tone because the frequency response graph says it cant ? lol Give your head a shake pal.  The frequency response graph shows where it works best.  They dont go all the way down to 0 hz because most music wont play that low and also because the human ear cannot hear below 20 hz.  This doesnt mean the woofer wont play! LOL.  The woofer or any speaker for that matter will play whatever frequency it is told to be the headunit/ amp.
> ...


fuck canada! :biggrin: :uh: 

what team are you with? 20hz was my boys from finals back in the day


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 01:57 AM~15431260
> *im not embarrassing myself at all...i am infact right here and you are wrong.  i dont see how you think you can be right at all.  Its been disproven for years and years that sub size means absolutely nothing as to how low/high the setup can play.  Its all in the box.
> 
> Now you're calling me an idiot for saying a woofer could play a 2 hz tone because the frequency response graph says it cant ? lol Give your head a shake pal.  The frequency response graph shows where it works best.   They dont go all the way down to 0 hz because most music wont play that low and also because the human ear cannot hear below 20 hz.  This doesnt mean the woofer wont play! LOL.  The woofer or any speaker for that matter will play whatever frequency it is told to be the headunit/ amp.
> ...


LIGHT SHINE ON MARBLED HEAD.....TONES ARE NOT MUSICALLY PASSAGES!!LOOK STOP IT MAN COME ON!!!!


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 22 2009, 09:53 AM~15432709
> *LIGHT SHINE ON MARBLED HEAD.....TONES ARE NOT MUSICALLY PASSAGES!!LOOK STOP IT MAN COME ON!!!!
> *


what is music? 

a group of tones arranged to get a desired result.....


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## 79 cutty (Sep 27, 2005)

:| :|


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## blacksmith (Feb 1, 2009)

GREAT POINTS BY EVERYBODY. 

kill it already.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 20 2009, 07:16 AM~15410609
> *one subwoofer comes to mind that can play lower then 22 hz thats a 10" ever heard of image dynamics? idmax10....
> 
> here's another 10" that will play far lower then 22 hz
> ...


 :cheesy:


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 22 2009, 07:42 AM~15432619
> *fuck canada! :biggrin:  :uh:
> 
> what team are you with? 20hz was my boys from finals back in the day
> *


20 hz guys are east coasters...Im over on the west coast. From what Ive seen in a few threads tho theyre rebuilding their yellow van into a bassracer I think.

As far as teams im with we have team west coast extreme SPL which is primarily IASCA, then Team Deaftraps for my dbdrag and usaci guys...and my own team Team Synyster Audio.

Bu generally at the larger competitions I stick with the Riprock Twins and The A team (clay) who has a 160+ bassracer. And team custom dale. Recently at dbdrag world finals...the riprocks won 1st place burping a 180.8 with their 2 DD woofers, The A Team placed 2nd in bassrace and won psyclone and team custom dale won street C with a 157.5 only on 2 amps. Unreal showing for my boys from the west here.

Heres a pic of the riprocks trooper...they burped 180+ first time ever by a Canadian and one of the very few people ever to do it in the world. Also this was done with only 4 amps when theyre allowed 8 in their class to their 2 woofers









And a pic of The A teams Jimmy...its a 160+ db bassracer playin in the 150-159.9 class. Unfortunately he broke out in the final round against Steve Micks astro van so was only able to get 2nd place in bassrace but ended up winning psyclone and getting 2nd place inthe dbdrag section. Took home some pretty big hardware thats for sure. All that and hes only running 7 batteries total and theyre 12 volts..pretty impressive when some people in his class are running 50+ batteries at 16 volts
this pic was taken from the DC sound labs website after the A team bassraced a 161.8 which is the loudest bassrace score ever. All amazingly done on a 12 volt system with only 7 batts and only using 8 15s.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 22 2009, 07:53 AM~15432709
> *LIGHT SHINE ON MARBLED HEAD.....TONES ARE NOT MUSICALLY PASSAGES!!LOOK STOP IT MAN COME ON!!!!
> *


lol ur funny. Have you accepted that you're wrong yet? As posted above tones are the same as music. To your speakers its just a signal going through it. Many bass heavy songs almost run a straight tone the whole way thru on the lows


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 09:27 PM~15439188
> *20 hz guys are east coasters...Im over on the west coast.  From what Ive seen in a few threads tho theyre rebuilding their yellow van into a bassracer I think.
> 
> As far as teams im with we have team west coast extreme SPL which is primarily IASCA, then Team Deaftraps for my dbdrag and usaci guys...and my own team Team Synyster Audio.
> ...


I know alot of those guys from TP and doing shows up north...
I was at finals for ss1-2 many moons ago..
white blazer w/DD 9918s and bd1500s


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 22 2009, 07:40 PM~15439328
> *I know alot of those guys from TP and doing shows up north...
> I was at finals for ss1-2 many moons ago..
> white blazer w/DD 9918s and bd1500s
> *


id love to build a superstreet vehicle but the cost of gear to be competitive on a world wide scale is just unreal. Especially for something which doesnt really play music and cant be daily driven. 

Thats why Ive choosen to build a bassracer instead. I should still hopefully be able to burp close to 165 once its all said and done though.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 09:42 PM~15439349
> *id love to build a superstreet  vehicle but the cost of gear to be competitive on a world wide scale is just unreal.  Especially for something which doesnt really play music and cant be daily driven.
> 
> Thats why Ive choosen to build a bassracer instead.  I should still hopefully be able to burp close to 165 once its all said and done though.
> *


the rule changes made me give up on db drag.... I have a van thats built for demo/bassace 4 9918s and 16 modified vr 4000ds but I still need to get more batts and wire


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 22 2009, 08:29 PM~15439215
> *lol ur funny.  Have you accepted that you're wrong yet?  As posted above tones are the same as music.  To your speakers its just a signal going through it.  Many bass heavy songs almost run a straight tone the whole way thru on the lows
> *


technically its resistance going through the coil causing it to interact with the magnetic field, and the coil is connected to a cone to amplify its sound that its producing going past the magnetic field...


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 23 2009, 01:19 AM~15442582
> *technically its resistance going through the coil causing it to interact with the magnetic field, and the coil is connected to a cone to amplify its sound that its producing going past the magnetic field...
> *


lol ok

btw its not resistance going through the coil its current. Resistance is a property of the coil itself depending on the coil material and how long its windings are.

But clearly you've missed my point are afraid to admit that you're wrong. 

Either way tone are the same as music to your speaker.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 23 2009, 02:30 AM~15442630
> *lol ok
> 
> btw its not resistance going through the coil its current.  Resistance is a property of the coil itself depending on the coil material and how long its windings are.
> ...


admit that i'm wrong? wait what?....where am i wrong, you sure your quoting the right person now?


and i'm tired, ment to say current, just got off of work...


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 23 2009, 01:31 AM~15442636
> *admit that i'm wrong? wait what?....where am i wrong, you sure your quoting the right person now?
> and i'm tired, ment to say current, just got off of work...
> *


my bad..i was just assuming you were another guy judging my car audio knowledge based on my post count. lol im sure Big Dirty will come back with some amazingly unintelligent comeback that involves no technical knowledge or physics based fact at all in his next post in this thread.

Something along the lines of. "There are theories that state a 10 inch sub cannot play below 22 hz" lol


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

I GOT TIRED OF ACTUALLY WASTING MY TIME DISCUSSING WITH A IDIOT. SO IT IS REALLY NOT WORTH MY EFFORT. BUT I HAVE NEVER COMPETED IN DB DRAGS, AND HONESTLY FOR ME IT IS JUVENILE. I AM INTO SQ SIMPLY, I AM A PUREST, AND I WANT TO HEAR MUSIC IN IT'S PURE FORM, NOT A BURP, OR A FART. BUT DO YOUR THING. I WILL DO MINE.

WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IF YOU ARE A SO CALLED EXPERT, THEN MAYBE HELP THE GUY THAT ASKED THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. WHICH WAS WHICH WOULD BE BETTER FOR RAP MUSIC WITH BASS, A 18 OR 15. 

READ WHAT I REPLIED

YOU CAME BACK WITH A BLANK STATEMENT ABOUT SOME 10'S HIT HARDER THEN 18'S. 

WHICH IS TOTAL BULL SHIT. 

THAT IS THE STORY


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 23 2009, 01:36 PM~15446911
> *I GOT TIRED OF ACTUALLY WASTING MY TIME DISCUSSING WITH A IDIOT. SO IT IS REALLY NOT WORTH MY EFFORT.  BUT I HAVE NEVER COMPETED IN DB DRAGS, AND HONESTLY FOR ME IT IS JUVENILE.  I AM INTO SQ SIMPLY, I AM A PUREST, AND I WANT TO HEAR MUSIC IN IT'S PURE FORM, NOT A BURP, OR A FART.  BUT DO YOUR THING.  I WILL DO MINE.
> 
> WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IF YOU ARE A SO CALLED EXPERT, THEN MAYBE HELP THE GUY THAT ASKED THE ORIGINAL QUESTION.  WHICH WAS WHICH WOULD BE BETTER FOR RAP MUSIC WITH BASS, A 18 OR 15.
> ...


clearly you have a reading comprehension problem. Which explains why you believe that 10s cant play below 22hz lol.

Anyway my point to the original poster is that the sub size doesnt matter if he likes rap music it will more so be the enclosure tuning that plays the biggest role not woofer size.

He could just as easily get the same results from 2 18s (508 sq inches of cone) compared to 10 8s (502 sq inches of cone) providing you're using woofers of apprximately the same quality and have proper boxes for each WITH THE SAME TUNING FREQUENCY. For rap 35hz seems to work well but you can drop down to 32 hz range if you like the real low stuff. Dropping your tuning too low and your box will peak below the frequency where most music plays...but atleast you wont have to worry about the woofers unloading and bottoming out when they play below tuning.

The reason most people think that 18s below lower than 12s or 10s is simply because the 18 has more cone area and plays louder at all frequencies. Also the more cone area you have the louder your setup can play below tuning frequency without damaging anything. Unless you make up for your cone area with motor strength


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 23 2009, 03:36 PM~15446911
> *BUT I HAVE NEVER COMPETED IN DB DRAGS, AND HONESTLY FOR ME IT IS JUVENILE.  I AM INTO SQ SIMPLY, I AM A PUREST, AND I WANT TO HEAR MUSIC IN IT'S PURE FORM, NOT A BURP, OR A FART.  BUT DO YOUR THING.  I WILL DO MINE.
> 
> *


Im not going to go there with you tonight, but dont be a douchebag... you are making blanket statements that have no weight


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 23 2009, 08:34 PM~15449670
> *clearly you have a reading comprehension problem.  Which explains why you believe that 10s cant play below 22hz lol.
> 
> Anyway my point to the original poster is that the sub size doesnt matter if he likes rap music it will more so be the enclosure tuning that plays the biggest role not woofer size.
> ...


I HAD ABOUT A THREE PARAGRAPH RESPONSE SO THAT MAYBE YOU COULD UNDERSTAND, BUT IT IS JUST NOT WORTH FIGHTING FOR, I AM HERE TO HELP PEOPLE WITH THERE CAR STEREO QUESTIONS


----------



## My63impala (Feb 24, 2009)

> _Originally posted by gottie_@Oct 19 2009, 05:55 PM~15405472
> *
> 
> 
> ...



Nice box man


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 19 2009, 06:31 PM~15405908
> *If I have enough space I run 18's. BTL 18's hit harder then BTL 15's when the correct enclosure with the correct power.
> *


just thought id add to this.

a BTL 18 has the ability to hit harder than a BTL 15 because of the obvious cone area advantage.

however when it comes time to putting these large speakers into a car environment sometimes the smaller woofer allows for different enclosure designs which benefit the vehicle better.

For instance....posted in this thread is this pic of what looks to be a DC level 5 18 or possibly a level 4 xl but id say its probably a level 5. Super killer woofer. Running off of a Fusion surfboard 4kw amp...pretty good amp too. With decent battery power. All crammed in a 2nd generation ford explorer. Im not sure what kind of SPL results this guy has but let me show you this.


This is a setup I had in my 2nd generation explorer running off of 1 memphis mojo 4kw amp which is on paper the same power as his Fusion amp. And only running 1 batteries (odyssey 2150) compared to his 4 batteries. Now because I only used a single 15 I was able to run a much shorter box and in a 2nd gen explorer if you fire the port to the back the shorter the box is the more you increase your spl score at the dash. My sub was a shocker extreme that I reconed with atomic APX softparts. Basically a simple TC9 motor which is known for taking 1000 watts rms daily, been around for years...nothing special about it. I ran it in a nice 6th order series tuned bandpass and it was 150+ db from 36hz all the way up to 63 hz on the termlab all sealed up windows and doors closed, truck off. And she peaked at 152.3 at 51 hz. Which I would bet money is quite a bit louder than the DC box shown above even despite its huge battery power advantage and using a far far better woofer. This was also only with 2 runs of 1/0 from my front batt, I had 8 more runs sitting there being unused which would have gained me another 0.5db. Also it should be noted that my enclosure was in no way in SPL box as you could tell from its awesomely flat response curve being able to bust 150 from 36-63 hz.
And pics of the woofer...nothin special by any means
















Heres a few pics of the box itself.


















and the score. cant find the printout of the loudest burp but you get the idea










So the point here is....some vehicles shapes/sizes dont allow you to take full advantage of the additional cone area. 

Of course a different box design as Ive already mentioned in this thread to the owner of the DC setup would benefit him greatly if he could allow the box to block less air from passing by it.

The loudest vehicle in the world only uses 2 woofers..think about it.


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

and they also have hundreds if not thousands of hours in testing, tweaking, and rebuilding to get that loud.. :uh:


----------



## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 25 2009, 04:32 AM~15459007
> *just thought id add to this.
> 
> a BTL 18 has the ability to hit harder than a BTL 15 because of the obvious cone area advantage.
> ...


That is fucking sick!


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 25 2009, 06:26 AM~15459450
> *and they also have hundreds if not thousands of hours in testing, tweaking, and rebuilding to get that loud.. :uh:
> *


so do they guys using more than 2 woofers.

Im simply saying in car audio...less is more. Do your research before assuming the biggest or largest number of woofers is going to get you the best results.


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 25 2009, 11:30 AM~15460863
> *That is fucking sick!
> *


thanks. It was a pretty nice enclosure. Performed well and ill admitt I didnt expect it to stay over 150 db past 54 or 55 hz range so it outperformed my expectations by quite a bit.

Im building another one tomorrow for my gf's trailblazer. Probably be using a DD 9912 this time. Although Im unsure yet if im going to go 4th order or 6th order again. 

4th order is the easy way out but 6th order will give me much better results after its all tuned.


----------



## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 25 2009, 09:17 PM~15462943
> *thanks.  It was a pretty nice enclosure.  Performed well and ill admitt I didnt expect it to stay over 150 db past 54 or 55 hz range so it outperformed my expectations by quite a bit.
> 
> Im building another one tomorrow for my gf's trailblazer.  Probably be using a DD 9912 this time.  Although Im unsure yet if im going to go 4th order or 6th order again.
> ...


I would love to do a 6th order for one of my SeXXX 12's but I have no clue where to even start.


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 26 2009, 12:05 PM~15469055
> *I would love to do a 6th order for one of my SeXXX 12's but I have no clue where to even start.
> *


getcho ass on termpro, I know justin thornton (team subs go poof) is a bandpass junkie


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 26 2009, 01:31 PM~15469269
> *getcho ass on termpro, I know  justin thornton (team subs go poof) is a bandpass junkie
> *


I'll be a noob, noobs never get any love.


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 26 2009, 12:51 PM~15469432
> *I'll be a noob, noobs never get any love.
> *


n00bs get love except when they act n00bish....


----------



## blacksmith (Feb 1, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 26 2009, 09:51 AM~15469432
> *I'll be a noob, noobs never get any love.
> *


i would love to scoop up some knowledge on building and tuning bandpass boxes. why have a bunch of subs when one can potentially outperform a few.


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 26 2009, 02:08 PM~15470012
> *n00bs get love except when they act n00bish....
> *


FUCK, THEM 6TH/7TH ORDER BANDPASSES ARE A BITCH


----------



## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 26 2009, 01:31 PM~15469269
> *getcho ass on termpro, I know  justin thornton (team subs go poof) is a bandpass junkie
> *


Except Justin doesn't build his own shit most of the time


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Brahma Brian_@Oct 26 2009, 05:33 PM~15472063
> *Except Justin doesn't build his own shit most of the time
> *


he knows quite a bit about them and is easier to get ahold of than cook


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Brahma Brian_@Oct 26 2009, 03:33 PM~15472063
> *Except Justin doesn't build his own shit most of the time
> *


hes quite a knowledgeable guy definitely. He needs to learn how to finish a project that he starts though. of course im also extremely guilty of this!

However ill have my junk done and driving by spring for sure...just might not have the suspension and final set of wheels on until summer


----------



## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 09:38 PM~15474248
> *hes quite a knowledgeable guy definitely.  He needs to learn how to finish a project that he starts though.  of course im also extremely guilty of this!
> 
> However ill have my junk done and driving by spring for sure...just might not have the suspension and final set of wheels on until summer
> *


Where do you live? I can help get the suspension together.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 26 2009, 06:45 PM~15474355
> *Where do you live? I can help get the suspension together.
> *


Im in Abbotsford BC Canada.

The suspension is altogether already but its just a static drop still on my 17s at the moment...ill be running baggs and a staggered wheel combo once its all completed. Either an 18/20 combo or possibly 20/22. Problem being I already have the rear of the subwall completed and havent minitubbed the car yet so if I go with 22s in the rear im gunna have to cut out 12 hours worth of work back there to tub it. 

And even then to be runnin a 20/22 combo with 3000 lbs of stereo gear back there on stock gbody brakes (not even power brakes lol i converted to manual for a cleaner look) daily driving the car is gunna be an issue. 18/20 combo might suit me better and give me much less problems

I appreciate the offer tho


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 26 2009, 08:38 PM~15474248
> * He needs to learn how to finish a project that he starts though.  of course im also extremely guilty of this!
> 
> 
> *


arent we all


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 26 2009, 07:32 PM~15475059
> *arent we all
> *


I took my wagon off the road in august on 2004 because I randomly broke a rocker arm lol. Its a 5 minute fix that would have cost me $0 as I have several spare small blocks here at all times. Now here it is over 5 years later and Ive driven the car for about 20 days total since then.

Thats all gunna change here soon though!


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 27 2009, 02:42 AM~15478679
> *I took my wagon off the road in august on 2004 because I randomly broke a rocker arm lol.  Its a 5 minute fix that would have cost me $0 as I have several spare small blocks here at all times.  Now here it is over 5 years later and Ive driven the car for about 20 days total since then.
> 
> Thats all gunna change here soon though!
> *


i started building a box for my 91 caprice wagon bout 2 years ago....yup, still 3/4 of the way done....lol

and i still have a small oil leak on the car, hopefully that changes before the really cold season starts as far as the oil leak goes, idk if i'll ever get back to that box collecting dust in my garage(designed it to fit in the rear footwell so i can still haul stuff if need be, it'll house 2 12" or 1 15" woofer depending on space requirements)


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## StreetFame (Apr 9, 2008)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 20 2009, 06:40 PM~15416021
> *no need to take offense to my statement.  Im simply trying to give a helpful hint.  Its a proven fact that if you made your enclosure closer to the height of the window line (approximately 15" tall) and then lined the rear of the enclosure up with the back of the cargo hooks you would notice more output from your setup providing the box specs were the same.
> *


no offense taken  just not in anyway do I want your opinion on my build. No one on here seems to like that your quick to tell them what's wrong with their shit. Bottom line is that i'm not in the mood to hear you rattle off a bunch of specs you probably made up. Maybe you feel better about yourself going on a lowrider site like this one and spitting some shit you over heard on sounddomain.com or steavemeadedesigns.com. :biggrin:


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by StreetFame_@Oct 28 2009, 02:28 AM~15489342
> *no offense taken    just not in anyway do I want your opinion on my build.  No one on here seems to like that your quick to tell them what's wrong with their shit. Bottom line is that i'm not in the mood to hear you rattle off a bunch of specs you probably made up.  Maybe you feel better about yourself going on a lowrider site like this one and spitting some shit you over heard on sounddomain.com or steavemeadedesigns.com.  :biggrin:
> *


This guy is better with audio then most I've seen. He was just trying to help but some of you think it's a personal attack when you hear constructive criticism. And this is the audio section, doesn't matter if it's on a lowrider site.


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 28 2009, 05:14 AM~15489939
> *This guy is better with audio then most I've seen. He was just trying to help but some of you think it's a personal attack when you hear constructive criticism. And this is the audio section, doesn't matter if it's on a lowrider site.
> *


you dont get out much... getcho bitchass on TP


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 28 2009, 10:06 AM~15490618
> *you dont get out much... getcho bitchass on TP
> *


I do need to get on termpro. Maybe tonight.


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by StreetFame+Oct 27 2009, 11:28 PM~15489342-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


much appreciated.


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 28 2009, 10:17 PM~15498121
> *are you insinuating that I have no first hand knowledge and simply am plagiarizing the advice I gave you from another website?
> 
> People on here have the tendency to judge me and my car audio knowledge based on my post count.  Which is understandable as it happens on many many forums.  I dont recall rattling off many specs with your install as much as trying to explain to you the theory behind why you will be louder with your woofer up and ports back with a much shorter box so that the air out of the port bouncing off the tailgate and heading forward to your ear is not blocked.  Its a 100% proven design...especially when you're using a 2nd generation explorer and I probably know a 2nd gen explorer better than anyone in the world when built for a loud setup.  I built the loudest explorer in history..which is a record which still hasnt been beaten.  Continue to hate all you want but ill accept your apology the day you get off your ass and build a proper box for your truck.  One where you can actually see out the back window...and one which is below the window line so it cannot be spotted by a thief from 50 yards away.  PM me if you require plans for the enclosure build or for a full build and I can ship it.
> ...


I GUESS WHAT HE WAS MEANING WAS THAT AFTER SEEING THAT SYSTEM, HE WOULD FEEL HOW CAN YOU TELL HIM ANYTHING. BUT I MEAN WE HAVE ALL HAD OUT TIMES OF JUST EXPERIMENTING. BUT HONESTLY ALOT OF THE BASS COMPETITIONS THAT I HAVE SEEN, INSTALLATION QUALITY IS THE LAST THING ON PEOPLES MIND. I DO AGREE WITH YA, I WOULD DO A VERY NICE VERTICAL BOX, SPEAKER FACING UPWARDS, AND THOUGH IT WOULD BE NICE TO PORT TOWARDS THE BACK WINDOW FOR THAT BOUNCE AFFECT, BUT DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE WOOFER. FORWARD TO THE SEAT BACK, OR TOWARDS THE WINDOW SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT. I HAVE SEEN BOTH WAYS. BUT HAVING YOUR BOX LIKE THAT, YOU CAN FLUSH YOUR AMPS IN THERE.


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## DUVAL (Nov 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Oct 26 2009, 04:39 PM~15471425
> *FUCK, THEM 6TH/7TH ORDER BANDPASSES ARE A BITCH
> *


 :uh: YOUR TRIPPN.. 7TH ORDER BOXES ARE OFF THE CHAIN.... BANDPASSES JUST LOOK BETTER,,,,, BUT I WANT THE QUAD CITY KNOCK....NO ****


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## DUVAL (Nov 14, 2003)

15'S ARE JUST RIGHT.................18'S ARE KINDA SLOPPY AND THE BOX TAKES UP TO MUCH ROOM.....


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## Airborne (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DUVAL_@Oct 29 2009, 02:06 PM~15503952
> *15'S ARE JUST RIGHT.................18'S ARE KINDA SLOPPY AND THE BOX TAKES UP TO MUCH ROOM.....
> *


Confucious say... 














































Sloppy built=sloppy sound.


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 29 2009, 01:26 PM~15504089
> *Confucious say...
> Sloppy built=sloppy sound.
> *


RATHER HAVE TIGHT THEN SLOPPY...NO ****


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DUVAL_@Oct 29 2009, 01:06 PM~15503952
> *15'S ARE JUST RIGHT.................18'S ARE KINDA SLOPPY AND THE BOX TAKES UP TO MUCH ROOM.....
> *


stop posting... you are brain damaged


----------



## DUVAL (Nov 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Airborne_@Oct 29 2009, 01:26 PM~15504089
> *Confucious say...
> Sloppy built=sloppy sound.
> *


18'S TAKE 3-4 SQUARE CUBIC FEET OR YOU CAN GET SOME CLEAN 15'S AND LET THEM WHALE HARD AS FUCK.. JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT..12'S HIT HARDED THEN ANYTHING ELSE BUT 15'S ARE DEEP AND FUCK AND YOU CAN FEEL THAT SHIT IN YOUR CHEST.. NO ****


----------



## DUVAL (Nov 14, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 29 2009, 05:23 PM~15506256
> *stop posting... you are brain damaged
> *


 :uh: I'MA MAKE YOU KISS THE BABY..NO ****


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DUVAL_@Oct 29 2009, 11:16 PM~15510198
> *18'S TAKE 3-4 SQUARE CUBIC FEET OR YOU CAN GET SOME CLEAN 15'S AND LET THEM WHALE HARD AS FUCK.. JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT..12'S HIT HARDED THEN ANYTHING ELSE BUT 15'S ARE DEEP AND FUCK AND YOU CAN FEEL THAT SHIT IN YOUR CHEST.. NO ****
> *


i take it you are brain damaged


----------



## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DUVAL_@Oct 29 2009, 10:16 PM~15510198
> *18'S TAKE 3-4 SQUARE CUBIC FEET OR YOU CAN GET SOME CLEAN 15'S AND LET THEM WHALE HARD AS FUCK.. JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT..12'S HIT HARDED THEN ANYTHING ELSE BUT 15'S ARE DEEP AND FUCK AND YOU CAN FEEL THAT SHIT IN YOUR CHEST.. NO ****
> *


yea my cuzins 2 10" 20 year old pyramids in a bandpass box in his closet in his room will shake your chest....thats no major feat. you get what you pay for, buy a cheap 18, and its gonna perform far less than spending that same money on a 12


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by DUVAL_@Oct 29 2009, 09:16 PM~15510198
> *18'S TAKE 3-4 SQUARE CUBIC FEET OR YOU CAN GET SOME CLEAN 15'S AND LET THEM WHALE HARD AS FUCK.. JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT..12'S HIT HARDED THEN ANYTHING ELSE BUT 15'S ARE DEEP AND FUCK AND YOU CAN FEEL THAT SHIT IN YOUR CHEST.. NO ****
> *


hahaha you really do have brain damage.

just curious...is "square cubic feet" a new type of volume measurement?

also 3-4 cubes is still a bit small for most 18s sealed. And why run sealed anyway? Its a huge waste of time. Mediocre builds get mediocre results..anyone who really knows their car audio will know not to run a sealed box. Perhaps thats why you think 12s hit the hardest. Unreal lol


----------



## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 30 2009, 04:50 AM~15512246
> *hahaha you really do have brain damage.
> 
> just curious...is "square cubic feet" a new type of volume measurement?
> ...


not entirely true on "not" running a sealed box, some vehicles a ported enclosure just won't work/sound right....ie really tiny cabs or small area's for the box to begin with.


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 30 2009, 05:50 AM~15512246
> *hahaha you really do have brain damage.
> 
> just curious...is "square cubic feet" a new type of volume measurement?
> ...


personal choice dickwad......

waste in whose eyes?


----------



## blacksmith (Feb 1, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Oct 30 2009, 04:18 PM~15517252
> *personal choice dickwad......
> 
> waste in whose eyes?
> *


i like sealed boxes. i run both sealed and ported in different vehicles. 

question: are a lot of SQ contestants running ported or sealed boxes?


----------



## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Oct 30 2009, 05:50 AM~15512246
> *hahaha you really do have brain damage.
> 
> just curious...is "square cubic feet" a new type of volume measurement?
> ...


BASED ON WHAT CONCEPT....YOURS. I HAVE BUILT SOME SEALED ENCLOSURE THAT ARE ABSOULTELY SICK. BUT LIKE 2004 SAID, SOME SITUATION LIKE SMALL CABS ARE GOING TO REQUIRE YOU USE A SEALED ENCLOSURE, BUT FUCK IT, BUILD A PORTED BECAUSE SEALED ARE A WASTE OF TIME???? AGAIN ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE NEWBIES, AND THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE WHAT YOU SAY AS GOSPEL. SO YOU HAVE TO CONCEIVE THAT YOUR RESPONSE ON THOSE TOPICS MAY LEAD PEOPLE TO TAKE YOUR ADVICE AND TRY TO BUILD A PORTED ENCLOSURE IN SMALL AREA.


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 30 2009, 07:05 AM~15512797
> *not entirely true on "not" running a sealed box, some vehicles a ported enclosure just won't work/sound right....ie really tiny cabs or small area's for the box to begin with.
> *


it all just take a little imagination. 



> _Originally posted by Pitbullx+Oct 30 2009, 05:18 PM~15517252-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


theres nothing wrong with building a ported box in a small area if you modify the design accordingly. inverted woofer and external port, and there ya have it. You can go as small as 0.75 cubes for some 10s and still run ported daily using this method.

hell in my explorer my enclosure was 5.75 cf for 6 solo X 10s with the woofers convetionally mounted and it played music amazingly even tuned to 48 hz because the woofers had enough combined motor strength to play notes below tuning frequency. Below 30 hz was weak though.

What do you mean based on what concept? Its a proven fact that ported boxes are louder than sealed.

Many installs may look as though they have too small of a space to make a ported setup work but its as simple as using a little imagination or possibly switching to a smaller woofer or less woofers to make it work. Thats why people shouldnt be lead to believe that they need a 15" for instance to play their low bass when they can just drop down to a 12 or 10" woofer and have a nice ported box tuned low and itll play the low notes just fine. The misconception from noobs around the world thinking woofer size matters is a large reason why people take the easy way out and run a sealed box and get crappy results.


----------



## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 1 2009, 08:05 PM~15530609
> *it all just take a little imagination.
> in my eyes and every other good installer/enclosure designer ive ever met in my life.  Keep in mind id say 75% of installers out there cant build a good ported box if their fuckin life depended on it.
> It used to be everyone claimed that ported boxes are sloppy but loud and sealed boxes are tight hitting bass but not as loud as ported.  So nearly all sound quality competitors ran sealed enclosures for years and years but in the last few years people are realizing that a solid ported enclosure really doesnt have much sound quality difference than sealed...but will also allow you some tuneability in the box which is the ultimate advantage over sealed.
> ...


seriously you are a fucking douchebag......just because you live your life behind a meter doesnt make running sub(s) in sealed enclosures a waste of time.....if the shit was a waste of time manufacturers wouldnt have sealed box specs nor would they recommend sealed boxes for their subs....and before you spout off "Im doing 157 blah blah" save the shit.... Ive probably been into high level SPL competitions long before you, multiple time world finalist in 2 orgs and Ive held a world record so that shit doesnt impress me in the slightest...


----------



## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 1 2009, 06:56 PM~15531039
> *seriously you are a fucking douchebag......just because you live your life behind a meter doesnt make running sub(s) in sealed enclosures a waste of time.....if the shit was a waste of time manufacturers wouldnt have sealed box specs nor would they recommend sealed boxes for their subs....and before you spout off "Im doing 157 blah blah" save the shit.... Ive probably been into high level SPL competitions long before you, multiple time world finalist in 2 orgs and Ive held a world record so that shit doesnt impress me in the slightest...
> *


where in that quote did I brag about my numbers or being to world finals? You sound like you're a little past your prime and taking it out on other people. If thats the case Im sorry thats happened to you. Maybe you should try building something loud against todays competitors and see if you can still hang.

But before you resort to lookin like a caveman and aimlessly name calling why dont you try making an actual point. 

Manufacturers give sealed box recommendations because some people obviously dont have the skill or knowledge to design or build a ported box so sealed is the way to go for them...or they just want a little bit of bass and dont really care about getting the most out of their setups. They want something cheap and they want it now. Sealed boxes will be best for them. However, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who had a good drop in ported box to replaced their sealed box and still preferred ported. 

Understand my point now? Out of the people who actually care about their results theyll be getting out of their enclosure theres no point for them to go sealed unless they're pure SQ or simply dont know better.

It has nothing to do with any sort of SPL enclosure or anything along those lines because theyre quite obviously a completely different type of monster.


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

THIS IS WHAT I SAID



> *WHAT I MEANT IS YOU CAN NOT MAKE A BLANK STATEMENT LIKE THAT.  BECAUSE SOMEONE AS YOURSELF WILL BELIEVE THAT.  SHIT IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK ON IT.  AVI MAKES A 5" SUBWOOFER THAT OUTPLAYS MOST 10" SUBS.  SO IF I WENT AND SAID A 5" SUB CAN HIT HARDER AND LOWER THEN A 10" SUB IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT FOR 5" SPEAKERS.
> 
> AND THE CONCEPT THAT A 10" SUB CAN PLAY LOWER THEN A 18" SUB IS NOT PLAUSABLE.  THERE IS INFORMATION THAT IS AT 22 HZ AND LOWER THAT A 10" SUB CAN NOT PLAY.  IF YOU  HAVE HAD A 12" SUB, AND YOU GET USE TO THAT, HEAR THAT, FEEL THE BASS ON CERTAIN TRACKS, THEN SWITCH TO A 10" SUB, AND YOU ARE LIKE UH WHERE DID THAT BASS NOTE GO, IT WENT BECAUSE THAT 10" CAN NOT PLAY INTO THE LOWER FREQUENCY.  NOW OF COURSE THERE ARE 10" SUB THAT WILL OUTPERFOM A 18 INFERIOR SUB, BECAUSE OF HOW THE SUB IS BUILT.*


THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID


> *I hope you're not serious LOL Did I actually read this correctly? Did you just say that no 10" sub in the world can play below 22hz?
> 
> heres lesson #1 because apparently YOU are the noob lol
> 
> ...



AND THIS IS WHAT YOU JUST QUOTED WHICH SAYS THE SAME THING THAT I SAID, OR WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO THE GUY ABOUT A 10" SUB NOT BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE THE SAME FREQUENCY WITH THE SAME IMPACT AS SAY A 12" SUB


> _Originally posted by Wagonized+Nov 1 2009, 08:05 PM~15530609-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...



YOU JUST SIT INT HE MIRROR AND TALK TO YOURSELF DON'T YOU. "YOU ARE SUCH A GREAT GUY" SMILING AT YOURSELF. 

I DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU TRY TO IMPRESS, BUT I MEAN YOU CONCEPTS ARE SO IGNORANT AND TOTALLY INACCURATE AND BIASED. 

GO BACK TO CANADA WITH THAT SHIT........ :uh:


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 1 2009, 11:28 PM~15532560
> *where in that quote did I brag about my numbers or being to world finals?  You sound like you're a little past your prime and taking it out on other people.  If thats the case Im sorry thats happened to you.  Maybe you should try building something loud against todays competitors and see if you can still hang.
> 
> But before you resort to lookin like a caveman and aimlessly name calling why dont you try making an actual point.
> ...


you may not have said shit about your numbers in that particular post but you sure do drop them in damn near every thread you respond to......
and as far as "being past my prime" you are a fucking fool..... I dont compete anymore because I find it boring not because I cant hang rookie....Im just sick of seeing you using a burp as reason to backup what you seem to think is always right(my ride still does well over 166-167 on the "new" termlab legal)

your personal opinion on box choices isnt the gospel and just because someone doesnt do what YOU want it isnt a waste of time..... stop being a toolbag


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## phatjoe0615 (Nov 2, 2007)

> _Originally posted by gottie+Oct 19 2009, 06:55 PM~15405472-->
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice i likes a lot  . i got one 15" eclipse in my tahoe and hits harder then anything i have ever had b4. titanium steel. oh yea :biggrin:


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 2 2009, 03:57 PM~15538811
> *you may not have said shit about your numbers in that particular post but you sure do drop them in damn near every thread you respond to......
> and as far as "being past my prime" you are a fucking fool..... I dont compete anymore because I find it boring not because I cant hang rookie....Im just sick of seeing you using a burp as reason to backup what you seem to think is always right(my ride still does well over 166-167 on the "new" termlab legal)
> 
> your personal opinion on box choices isnt the gospel and just because someone doesnt do what YOU want it isnt a waste of time..... stop being a toolbag*


X FUCKING 2


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by phatjoe0615_@Nov 2 2009, 04:45 PM~15539285
> *nice i likes a lot  . i got one 15" eclipse in my tahoe and hits harder then anything i have ever had b4. titanium steel. oh yea :biggrin:
> *


eclipse tit pros were the shit :biggrin:


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 2 2009, 06:50 PM~15540427
> *eclipse tit pros were the shit  :biggrin:
> *


YEAH THEY WERE, THOSE WERE TWO OF THE BEST SUBS I HAVE EVER OWNED.


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## THEE LAST LAUGH (May 20, 2007)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Oct 30 2009, 01:17 AM~15511891
> *yea my cuzins 2 10" 20 year old pyramids in a bandpass box in his closet in his room will shake your chest....thats no major feat.  you get what you pay for, buy a cheap 18, and its gonna perform far less than spending that same money on a 12
> *


 :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 2 2009, 01:57 PM~15538811
> *you may not have said shit about your numbers in that particular post but you sure do drop them in damn near every thread you respond to......
> and as far as "being past my prime" you are a fucking fool..... I dont compete anymore because I find it boring not because I cant hang rookie....Im just sick of seeing you using a burp as reason to backup what you seem to think is always right(my ride still does well over 166-167 on the "new" termlab legal)
> 
> ...


this is a forum full of opinions from different people. My opinion is that sealed boxes are shit unless used as a totally last resort, or when the owner doesnt care about getting the most out of their setup or the odd case when the woofer may work better sealed.

Ive mentioned the numbers I do in past posts to give other readers on the forum some insight as to where my knowledge comes from. This forum is pretty bad for the veterans thinking everyone with a low post count is a noob so yes I did bring up some of my accomplishments.

BTW I assume your ride is an extreme vehicle then with plexi windshield and side windows?


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## Pitbullx (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 4 2009, 02:46 AM~15557441
> *this is a forum full of opinions from different people.  My opinion is that sealed boxes are shit unless used as a totally last resort, or when the owner doesnt care about getting the most out of their setup or the odd case when the woofer may work better sealed.
> 
> Ive mentioned the numbers I do in past posts to give other readers on the forum some insight as to where my knowledge comes from.  This forum is pretty bad for the veterans thinking everyone with a low post count is a noob so yes I did bring up some of my accomplishments.
> ...


well you should state that it is your OPINION and not try to pass it off as a fact, there are countless people here who dont have much audio knowledge and they will see that as the truth when in fact it is nowhere near the truth....... 


and no its not an extreme class vehicle


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by Pitbullx_@Nov 4 2009, 08:35 AM~15558632
> *
> and no its not an extreme class vehicle
> *


interesting....any pics of this vehicle or its setup? Just curious who you are to have one of the top 5 loudest superstreet vehicles in north america. Im sure ive heard of you.


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

i dont know whats better 18 vs 15's, but i usually run 2 12's and that shit will make ur eyeballs jiggle and nose itch,,,lol


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## baggedout81 (Jan 5, 2009)

add to post



Neither i like my 3 10"'s no ****


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by swangin68_@Nov 9 2009, 01:19 AM~15604834
> *i dont know whats better 18 vs 15's, but i usually run 2 12's and that shit will make ur eyeballs jiggle and nose itch,,,lol
> *


does it play below 22 hz ? lol 

sorry...had to be done


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

also add that more and more companies are comin out with larger woofers than 18"

atomic has their 24" ele









MTX has that piece of shit jackhammer...what a failure that was









Digital designs is coming out with a 21 or 22" version of their neo Z motor....which is going to be absolutely ridiculous! The 12" version shown here. This is the loudest woofer in the world currently. In extreme builds and elite level superstreet builds, neo motors are the only way to go.









And lastly incriminator audio has a death penalty 21"









But they just recently came out with a 21" neo which should also kickass if the cone will hold without folding


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## baggedout81 (Jan 5, 2009)

WOW,Guess i've been outa the game for two long.This whole subwoofer sizing is outa control.My .02

Gonna have to start using semi trailer's and enclosures soon :roflmao: :roflmao:


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## swangin68 (Nov 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 9 2009, 01:09 AM~15605012
> *does it play below 22 hz ? lol
> 
> sorry...had to be done
> *


honestly im not sure,, it does play low tho, im not an expert like u, but im sure it can get down to atleast 20... u cant hear shit below that anyway, so why would i need it to. for a daily?


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 9 2009, 05:52 AM~15605219
> *also add that more and more companies are comin out with larger woofers than 18"
> 
> atomic has their 24" ele
> ...


you forgot all about the audiobahn 32" subwoofer that is over 10 years old......large subwoofers are nothing new, they have been around for a decade or 2.....think back to the future, that was a functional speaker...lol


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Nov 9 2009, 08:58 PM~15614590
> *you forgot all about the audiobahn 32" subwoofer that is over 10 years old......large subwoofers are nothing new, they have been around for a decade or 2.....think back to the future, that was a functional speaker...lol
> *


there was the audiobahn 34" and the clarion thunderdome 32" but both of those were pretty shitty.

Richard Clark built a 60" sub with Jonathon Demuth (owner of T3 audio) and one or two other guys which was quite impressive but tore apart the van it was in before it could show its full potential.


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## Brahma Brian (Nov 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Wagonized_@Nov 10 2009, 04:06 PM~15622497
> *there was the audiobahn 34" and the  clarion thunderdome 32" but both of those were pretty shitty.
> 
> Richard Clark built a 60" sub with Jonathon Demuth (owner of T3 audio) and one or two other guys which was quite impressive but tore apart the van it was in before it could show its full potential.
> *


There's a thread here that all of these are posted in, but the search isn't working as usual, so I can't find it to post it.


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## draarong2004 (Feb 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Brahma Brian_@Nov 10 2009, 03:09 PM~15622528
> *There's a thread here that all of these are posted in, but the search isn't working as usual, so I can't find it to post it.
> *


if i have time tomorrow, i'll browse for it, i know which thread your talking about and i think i posted in it....i remember seeing 2 versions of that 60" i think the one that has mtx written all over it is photo shop iirc, unless there was 2 of them built.


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## Wagonized (Apr 13, 2009)

> _Originally posted by draarong2004_@Nov 11 2009, 05:48 PM~15637122
> *if i have time tomorrow, i'll browse for it, i know which thread your talking about and i think i posted in it....i remember seeing 2 versions of that 60" i think the one that has mtx written all over it is photo shop iirc, unless there was 2 of them built.
> *


nope there was definitely only one built. But it did have mtx stickers on it at one point. I think MTX may have helped fund the build very minimally perhaps. Still a very very impressive build

It did something like 163 @ 7 hz with one single rearward 1/2 stroke of the cone before it broke. Thats a 163 on the old termlab but still impressive


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## brian84corvette (Nov 22, 2009)

ive got a RE sx 18 d2 coils in my vette at the moment in a small ported box per the subs recomendations, and it absolutely takes up all of my rear hatch area, but its worth it.

the sounds that the 18" sub can produce are one thing
but the psyical feeling of that much air being displaced
is like getting a full boddy massage from your favorite bass songs.

so ill take 18" + over 15" every time due to my good experience with mine - and im realley diggin the IA death penalty 21"


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

DAVID AND RICHARD DEVELOPED THE SUBWOOFER. DAVID NAVONE IS A PRETTY COOL DUDE, HE IS FROM STOCKTON CA, AND HE HAD A SHOP, WAS ALWAYS NICE TO JUST GO AND SUCK UP KNOWLEDGE. THAT WAS BEFORE HE GOT BIG, BUT HE WAS ALWAYS AHEAD OF HIS TIME.


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## 86 Limited (May 7, 2002)

that woofer needs a reinforced semi trailer for an enclosure


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## AndrewH (Dec 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by BIG DIRTY_@Nov 23 2009, 05:37 PM~15757539
> *
> 
> 
> ...


I remember buying parts from David before anyone knew who he was.I'm guessing thats Richard Clarke with him.

I've been out too long. whats the world records right now? is term pro still around?


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## BIG DIRTY (Jan 31, 2002)

> _Originally posted by AndrewH_@Dec 1 2009, 07:13 PM~15836807
> *I remember buying parts from David before anyone knew who he was.I'm guessing thats Richard Clarke with him.
> 
> I've been out too long. whats the world records right now? is term pro still around?
> *


I DO NOT KNOW, BUT I DO KNOW THAT I SPOKE WITH THE HOLIDAYS ABOUT THREE MONTHS AGO, AND ERIC WAS LIKE I REMEMBER YOU, HAD THAT BLUE MITSUBISHI MIGHTY MAX WITH THE HYDROS ON IT. YOU WERE LIKE 7 FEET TALL.......... :cheesy: BUT THEY ARE MORE INTO FAB NOW, DOING LOCAL PROMOTIONS. IT IS WEIRD THAT THE OLD SCHOOL FOLKS AINT AROUND. BUT THEY LURKING.


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