# Coil over cups necessary?



## SnapDemon (May 12, 2014)

The tool who did they hydraulics on my '87 Monte Carlo simply welded a coil wrapped around a metal cylinder to the rear axle and then the hydraulic piston bolted to a coil over cup rested on that. Stuff went hay wire on the highway, lost my coil over cup, and the coil/cylinder came off the axle. I want to weld a c channel onto the axle (where do I get one?) weld a power ball to the channel and then screw in the hydraulic piston. Is that possible? Where does the coil over cup come in? Or do I not understand how power balls work. Thanks.


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## marquis_on_3 (Jun 28, 2011)

show pics


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## wannabelowrider (Mar 14, 2008)

I have c channel welded to the rear end then the power ball to that. Then the cylinder screwed onto the power ball, reverse deep cups below the spring then a coil over cups on the upper spring perch


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## wannabelowrider (Mar 14, 2008)

BTW coil over cups go on top and they're not necessary. Its the reverse deeps that go on bottom and from what I understood that's what you're referring to. Am I wrong?


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## OGJordan (Nov 10, 2004)

How powerballs work....

Weld power ball to axle.
Bolt cylinder to power ball.
Place cup over cylinder. It slides down and rests on the collar of the cylinder like a doughnut usually does.
Place coil over cylinder to rest on cup.
Place top cup on cylinder.

Now you have a coil that has a top and bottom cup where the depth of the cup is inside the coil.

The top cup is what touches the frame.

Here's a pic, coil under on top, coil over on bottom:


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## OGJordan (Nov 10, 2004)

Here's some normal coilover cups:









If you're talking about these, they aren't necessary but they let you run an extra turn of coil:










And if you don't use any cups you end up with this.....won't come apart, but it is NOT how you do it lol:


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## Dumps (Jan 7, 2002)

And if you don't use any cups you end up with this.....won't come apart, but it is NOT how you do it lol:

View attachment 1256258
[/QUOTE]

:roflmao:


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## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

I have spare c channel if u need some 15shipped..... 4072559414


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## SnapDemon (May 12, 2014)

marquis_on_3 said:


> show pics


 Can't get pics till tomorrow.


wannabelowrider said:


> BTW coil over cups go on top and they're not necessary. Its the reverse deeps that go on bottom and from what I understood that's what you're referring to. Am I wrong?


Yeah I think I have you confused. I have coil over cups bolted to the bottom of the hydraulic piston. The cups rest on a metal cylinder instead of coils. These cylinders are welded straight to the axle. 


OGJordan said:


> How powerballs work....
> 
> 
> Weld power ball to axle.
> ...


So I think it's coil under on top(like the first example in the picture), only a metal cylinder instead of a coil. Right now the frame is resting on donuts. Would a cup one better or only if I want to put coils in between?


OGJordan said:


> Here's some normal coilover cups:
> 
> 
> View attachment 1256314
> ...


Haha. So from what I understand if I don't have coils I don't need cups.


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## OGJordan (Nov 10, 2004)

No, but you should have coils unless you have accumulators. If you don't you'll bend a cylinder in like a mile. You need to post a pic of what's going on. There should be absolutely NO WAY that a cylinder is welded to your rear end. IF it is you need to kick the installers ass.


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)

C-channel is ghetto. Just weld the powerball directly to the axle. Your current setup is better than powerballs if you can fix your coil popping out problem. Mine don't ever pop out.


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## KAKALAK (Mar 11, 2005)

Duez said:


> C-channel is ghetto. Just weld the powerball directly to the axle. Your current setup is better than powerballs if you can fix your coil popping out problem. Mine don't ever pop out.


Yeah if you mold the powerball to your rearend.


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## SnapDemon (May 12, 2014)

OGJordan said:


> No, but you should have coils unless you have accumulators. If you don't you'll bend a cylinder in like a mile. You need to post a pic of what's going on. There should be absolutely NO WAY that a cylinder is welded to your rear end. IF it is you need to kick the installers ass.


I only have short coils in the front, want to get accumulators. Pics will come tomorrow, sorry the car is in a shop right now. It's not a hydraulic cylinder welded to the rear.



Duez said:


> C-channel is ghetto. Just weld the powerball directly to the axle. Your current setup is better than powerballs if you can fix your coil popping out problem. Mine don't ever pop out.


Well the reason why the weld broke is because the installers did a crappy job of welding a flat surface to the round axle. A C-channel would help with that. And I would think power balls would be better than, the frame resting on the hydraulic cylinder which is resting on the axle, although if I perhaps used deeper cups.


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)

You don't need c-channel, you need pipe. The powerball is round, the axle is round the c-channel is flat. I'll never use a coil-over setup again though. All that squeeking, wear on the cylinders, bigass holes into your trunk, hoses jumping everywhere in your trunk, I wouldn't even consider it.


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## buzzy wuzzy (Mar 11, 2009)

what do you mean by needing pipe?


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)




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## buzzy wuzzy (Mar 11, 2009)

pipe=axle


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)

No, pipe welded between axle and powerball.


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## RobLBC (Nov 24, 2001)

Duez said:


> I'll never use a coil-over setup again though. All that squeeking, wear on the cylinders, bigass holes into your trunk, hoses jumping everywhere in your trunk, I wouldn't even consider it.


 X2


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## cashmoneyspeed (Jun 21, 2005)

Duez said:


> You don't need c-channel, you need pipe. The powerball is round, the axle is round the c-channel is flat. I'll never use a coil-over setup again though. All that squeeking, wear on the cylinders, bigass holes into your trunk, hoses jumping everywhere in your trunk, I wouldn't even consider it.


Squeaking, wear on cylinders, jumping hoses...... Never had any of those problems with coil over and ive always used c-channel on the axle. That just sounds like bad installation.


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)

cashmoneyspeed said:


> Squeaking, wear on cylinders, jumping hoses...... Never had any of those problems with coil over and ive always used c-channel on the axle. That just sounds like bad installation.


What did you use where the cylinder passes through the frame to keep it from rubbing on the cylinder? How did you allow for the cylinder to pivot without making large holes? What spring did you use that the cylinder didn't move up and down?


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## Midwest Ridaz (Aug 17, 2008)

RobLBC said:


> X2


......Me too,coils on bottom Old School style...


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## moorevisual (May 14, 2009)

Midwest Ridaz said:


> ......Me too,coils on bottom Old School style...


x4, love my coil under set up


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## wannabelowrider (Mar 14, 2008)

Duez said:


> What did you use where the cylinder passes through the frame to keep it from rubbing on the cylinder? How did you allow for the cylinder to pivot without making large holes? What spring did you use that the cylinder didn't move up and down?


X2


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## cashmoneyspeed (Jun 21, 2005)

Duez said:


> What did you use where the cylinder passes through the frame to keep it from rubbing on the cylinder? How did you allow for the cylinder to pivot without making large holes? What spring did you use that the cylinder didn't move up and down?


Nothing but a smooth cut hole and cce top cups always with stock perches and a bridge. They don't pivot much, holes have about 3/8" space around the cylinders. As for the last question, I've used about a dozen different sets of springs with and without shocks and accumulators on multiple cars. Wire ties or similar allow movement of the hose with the cylinder without hose slap and everything is secure so nothing gets rubbed against. Just common sense which is why I said having those issues you mentioned is bad installation. Never an issue for me at all and I've also never had to chase a spring like I've seen happen countless times with the "hope my coil stays under" way of doing it.


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## projectr (Jul 17, 2013)

do you have to run a top cup for coil over.would it be fine to use a lower cup and let the of the spring sit in the spring pocket?


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## Duez (Feb 23, 2009)

projectr said:


> do you have to run a top cup for coil over.would it be fine to use a lower cup and let the of the spring sit in the spring pocket?


If Cashmoneyspeed is avoiding the squeaking and metal on metal wear by using them, then yes.


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## cashmoneyspeed (Jun 21, 2005)

projectr said:


> do you have to run a top cup for coil over.would it be fine to use a lower cup and let the of the spring sit in the spring pocket?


The cce top cups are beveled to allow for cylinder movement. They also help spread the stress of the coil if you don't have a bridge to keep the spring from "cork screwing" itself up into the trunk.


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## projectr (Jul 17, 2013)

I have BMH cups.I was gonna run a donut but since I have the cups sitting there and there is being put back together just trying to see whats my options.my spring pockets are reienforced so if it were to cork screw it wont do much damage.


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## BrownAzt3ka (May 4, 2008)

projectr said:


> I have BMH cups.I was gonna run a donut but since I have the cups sitting there and there is being put back together just trying to see whats my options.my spring pockets are reienforced so if it were to cork screw it wont do much damage.


a donut will just slide down the coil... unless its welded to the coil. Lona and sons used to weld a donut to the top of the coil, and a piece of pipe to the donut that woulld slide up into the trunk. This would help with the squeeking.. 

But like cashmoney said the cce top cups work well, and also help with the corkscrew...


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## buzzy wuzzy (Mar 11, 2009)

good info for us newbies


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## ILL BEHAVIOR (Aug 22, 2012)

Duez said:


>


:thumbsup:

First pic is stock coil mount. 

Second pic is Stock mount removed and tubed powerball perch before being welded. uffin:


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## ILL BEHAVIOR (Aug 22, 2012)

Here's what gave me the idea for a tubed powerball perch uffin:


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